Settei book translations/Interview
Page 118:
Interview with the Producer and Director
プロデューサー&ディレクター イタビュー 独特の世界と魅力的キャラクターを生み出したガストのディレクター土屋暁氏。 その制作を支援し本作を世に送り出したバンプレスト(バンプレソフト)プロデュー サー河内厚典氏。お二人に本作への想いをたっぷりと語っていただいた。
The Director, Mr. Tsuchiya Akira from Gust, who created such an unique world and such charming characters. The Producer, Mr. Kawachi Atsunori from Banpresto, who gave the support that this project needed to come out to the world. We talked to both of them about the feelings they had while working on this project
バンプレスト プロデューサー 河内厚典 バンプレスト CS開発課 第 二プロデュースチーム チーフ プロデューサー。GBA版『金 色のガッシュベル！！』シリーズ などを手がけてきた。本作では 総合プロデュースを担当。
Banpresto
Producer
Atsunori Kawachi
From Banpresto, charged with the development of the Cosmospheres, and Chief Producer of the Second Production Team. Worked on the [Konjiki Gash Bell! (Zatch Bell)] GBA games. On Ar tonelico, he was on charge of the coordinated production with Gust.
ガスト ディレクター 土屋暁 ガストにて、サウンドクリエイ ター。セクションチーフを務め 『アトリエ』シリーズのサウン ド面を支えてきた。今作では開 発の指揮を執り、 "音屋" のこ だわりを発揮。
Gust
Director
Akira Tsuchiya
Works as a Sound Creator in Gust. He is the section chief of support for the aural part of the [Atelier] series. In this work, he has been in complete charge of its development, and has demonstrated how far his obsession with the "sounds" can go.
『絆』を表現するための手段、心を通わ せるシステム。それが『ムスメ調合』
A way to expressing the bonds, a system that appeals to the heart. That is the [Girl Support].
ーー発売から約10が経ちましたが、手ごたえや反響はいかがですか？
It has been around 10 days since the game was released. How were your reactions to how it was received?
河内●今は便利な時代で、いろいろ皆さんの意見を見 させていただく機会は多いので、空恐ろしい状態です よね。最初はネットでもエロゲーとさんざん騒がれて。
Kawachi - Now is a good time, since we have given a chance to everyone to show us what were their opinions of the game, though we also have some vague fears. Especially since it was initially criticized as being an terrible game and an eroge in the internet.
土屋●これは正直ビックリでした。
Tsuchiya - I was honestly surprised.
河内●艶っぽく色っぽくという部分では、グラフィッ クを意識して進めてもらってたわけなんですけど、決 してギャルゲーを作っていたつもりはなくて。ですの で、皆さんが意外とひっかかったところは、狙ってい たわけじゃないところもいっぱいあって。
Kawachi - It sure has its glossy and colorful part, and we had to continue while being conscious that it was very graphic and all, but we never intended to make Ar tonelico as a gal game. That is probably what caught everyone by surprise, since it seems that the most of them thought we were pushing the development of the game in a completely different direction.
土屋●反応を見ていると『なるほど、そう捉えるかー』 と逆にこっちが驚いた事が結構ありました。
Tsuchiya - I was very surprised when I saw these responses [I see, so that is how you all perceive it...], because we intended the make the game the very opposite of that.
河内●『ムスメ調合』というのは特殊なジャン ルで、皆さんに注目してもらって、油断するとやっぱ りギャルゲーやエロゲー的なものになりそうなところ はあるんですけど、最初からそうじゃないものを意識 して、ちゃんと冒険RPGというところで作っていき ましたね。
Kawachi - Since we had classified it as a [Girl Supporting] game, that brought the attention of everyone, and even if it might have turned similar to a gal game or even an eroge at some points because of negligence on our part, that was because we didn't notice it from the start, since we intended to make the most similar possible to an Adventure RPG.
土屋●ギャルゲーっぽく捉えられやすい所がるんで すけど、ムスメ調合部分というのは手段でしかないん です。本当に作りたかったのは、プレイヤーが本当に キャラクターに感情移入できるための方法。プレイヤ ーとキャラクター、もしくはキャラクターとキャラク ターの『絆』を表現する事を目的としていて、それが 結果的に一番効率よくユーザーさんに楽しんでいただ ける形で、なおかつ感情移入してもらえる形だろう、 という結論で今のダイブシステムになったわけです。 この形が一番、ユーザーさんが心を通わせてもらえる だろうと思ったからです。
Tsuchiya - Even though it's easy to perceive it as something out from a gal game, the Girl Support part of the game was just a method for making empathy between the players and the characters. The real reason for us to develop it was to make a way in which the player can truly empathize with the characters. We aimed to be able to express the [bonds] between the players and the characters, or also, between the characters. When we were thinking about the best way to present these feelings of empathy while allowing the players to enjoy themselves while they saw them, we decided to make it as the current Dive System. We gave it that shape because we thought that it would be the best way to allow the players to relate with the characters.
河内●最初はみんな手を出していいものがどうなの が、恐る恐る『誰かプレイしたか』みたいな感じだっ たのが、『やってみたら良かった』とだんだんと評価 されていったのが、嬉しかったですね。
Kawachi - At the start, when everyone began playing, I seemed as if I wanted to ask everyone [Who is playing it?] Later on, I began thinking [I will be glad if someone gives the game a chance], and when the game began to be gradually appreciated, I was really glad.
テブルトークRPG用の設定から 現在『アルトネリコ』へ
From its conception as a Table RPG, to the current [Ar tonelico]
ーーバンプレストとガストがこの『アルトネリコ』で 手を組んだいきさつというのは？
How is that both Banpresto and Gust started working together in the [Ar tonelico] project?
河内●以前にGBA版のアトリエ(マリー、エリー& アニスのアトリエ~そよ風からの伝言~ (1) )をガス トさんとやらせていただきました。ガストさんはマリ ー、エリーというキャラクターをシステム面も含め育 てていて、バンプレストもキャラクターを作っていく 部分ではいろいろやっていますので、キャラクターを 一緒に作っていくと面白いよねというところで、何か やりましょうよと言い出して、時間をかけてようやく 始められたのが、今回の『アルトネリコ』だったんで す。キャラクターの大半の部分は土屋さんのほうが構 想を持っていたものだったんですが、『こういうゲー ムにできますよ』という話をいただいて、そこにこち ら側がいろいろなエッセンス、たとえばその中には『色 気』みたいな部分もあったわけなんですけど、それを 入れることで『サモンナイト』とは違ったキャラクタ ーの打ち出し方もできるかなというところで、一緒に やっていただきました。
Kawachi - We had previously worked with Gust for making a GBA version of the Atelier series (Atelier Marie, Elie and Anis ~Rumors from the Gentle Breeze~ (1) ). While Gust had already made the characters Marie and Elie and the general core of the game systems, the Banpresto made some of the characters and worked in various parts of the game. We thought that making the characters together in that game was quite an interesting experience, and we began talks between both companies to see in which project we could together next, until during a certain time, the issue of making a game called [Ar tonelico] was brought up. The characters, for the most part, are ideas that Mr. Tsuchiya had, and when we began talking about if [It would be possible to make these ideas into a game?], we understood what was their general essence game, to say in a way, we saw that inside of these ideas was something [charming], and while we thought that they were different from the characters of the [Summon Night] games, but we could make them as embossing as the characters from that franchise, we decided to start working together in this project.
土屋●私が企画を持っていった段階では、生粋のファ ンタジーRPGだったんですけどね。
Tsuchiya - Though the plans I had at the time looked more like something for making a pure fantasy RPG, right?
河内●塔はあったけど、精神世界はまだ小さなアイデ アで。
Kawachi - The Tower was already between these plans, but the Soulspace was nothing but an small idea back then.
土屋●まだ構想として『こんなのどう？』という程度 だったし、どっちかっていうとやっぱり普通のRPG だなぁ。
It was still an idea in the level of [How should we do it?], and either way we would have done it, I feel it would still have come out as a common RPG.
ーーその段階で騎士とレーヴァテイルの設定はありま したか？
Was the idea of the knights and the Reyvateils established since back then?
河内●ありましたよ。今とは設定というか関係が違っ たものでしたけど、塔の世界でヒロインと一緒にとい う部分はありました。その世界観の設定の片鱗という か、大半のものがすでに土屋さんの構想の中にあって、 その世界って面白いなぁって思った部分と、歌を中心 に全体を構成していく、歌の戦闘がある。それと、も う一つのキモである精神世界ですね。この部分で非常 に新規のタイトルだけど、ぶち上げられる魅力が隠れ てそうだなぁと思って、この話まとめようという動き がバンプレストで始まりました。見事に土屋さんの思 惑どおりに『ね、面白いでしょ』というのにノセられ て。
Kawachi - Yes. Even if what was set at that time greatly differs from the current setting, the world of the Tower and the part of fighting alongside with the heroines already existed then. Almost all of these parts of the world setting were ideas from Mr. Tsuchiya, and the things we though that were interesting of that world were that the songs were the core of everything, and could be even used for fighting. And to that core, we added one more crucial element, which would be the Soulspace. Though adding something like this to a new title would had made it unusual, we secretly thought it would rise the charm of the game, and the talks to find a way to putting it into the game began from the Banpresto side. It was splendid that we could do it, after Mr. Tsuchiya also had anticipated that [It could become very interesting].
土屋●そうだったのか。まぁ確かにそうだったかも。 最初からコンセプト自体は全く変わってなくて、『絆』 とか『信じること』とか『人を愛すること』とかそう いうものを、ストーリーだけじゃなくて、ゲームなら ではのインタラクティブな表現手法でやっていく、と いうのを一番最初の企画書から完成まで一貫して制作 しました。あと、同じくらい想いを貫いたものと言え ば『音楽』ですよね。音楽も一番最初に企画を出した ときに私は胸を張って『音を中心にした企画です』っ て出しました。これだけの歌い手さんがいて、この人 はこういう実績があって、こういう歌が10曲以上入 りますよって出したんですけど、いまいちビンときて なかったみたいで、『うーんなんかそれだけだと弱い かもね。他に売りが欲しい』って言われました......。 中でも特に、魅力的な絵を描く絵師さんを切望されま した。
Tsuchiya - It was like that? Well, certainly, it might be. The final game changed a lot from the initial concept we had, but the themes of [Bonds], [Trust] and [Love] are still the same, and this isn't just an story, because being a game, it's an interactive way of presenting these themes, and they have been always the most consistent part of this project since its initial proposal to until the game was finally completed. Now that is out, the feelings I want to get through to the players are approximately the same I tried to put in the [music]. The music was the thing I wanted to produce the most for this game, since in my mind there always was the persistent idea of producing a [project that has the sounds as its core]. With this we only had the singers and the composers, and managed to insert more than 10 songs into the game, but it still didn't look very good at the time. I even had said [Hmm, like this it still looks as a pretty weak product. I wish we could do something else so it can sell well]... Among other things, we were seriously needing an artist that could depict the charm of that world in his/her images.
河内●そして凪良さんが起用された訳です。
Kawachi - And that was the reason for Mr. Nagi being appointed as the artist for this project.
土屋●その凪良さんですが、私が結構前......2002年 くらいから注目していた方だったんですよ。自分で RPGを作るときは絶対にお願いしようって思って。 それで今回晴れてお願いすることになったのですが、 凪良さんも『RPGの仕事をやりたい』と言って乗り 気になってくださって、じゃあぜひにということで握 手したという感じです。いや、長かったです。凪良さ んにとっては突然の話だったと思いますけど。
Tsuchiya - About Mr. Nagi, he had caught my attention long before... around the 2002. I thought that I absolutely wanted to ask him to work in the RPG I was creating by myself. And when I went to ask him clearly about working for this project, he expressed to me his interested in participating by saying [I also want to work in making an RPG], and then we sealed the deal with a handshake. Well, it was a little long, but I thought that the conversation with Mr. Nagi was a little sudden.
土屋●そういえば1つこぽれ話が(笑)。実はアルト ネリコをPS2のRPGとして作り始めたのは実は 2000年(2) なのです。密かに。......そう、その頃の はまだレーヴァテイルっていう設定はなかった。本当 に生粋のファンタジーRPGだった。ただ、歌はその 頃からあって、歌が魔法ってのも変わらずで。非常に 自由度の高い魔法の生成システムがあって、それこそ アトリエの一番難易度が高いやつよりもさらにマニア
Tsuchiya - And this reminds of other thing I wanted to say (laughs). Actually, the development of Ar tonelico as a PS2 RPG began in the 200 year... in secret.... Yes, but at the time, I still hadn't established the Reyvateils. It was just a pure fantasy RPG, and even if the songs existed back them, they wouldn't change into magic. There was a magic crafting system that allowing a great grade of freedom, though it was more complicated to appease the maniacs that liked
Page 119:
ックなやつだったんですけど。このときにですね、絵 師さんに因ったんですよ。いい人が見つからなくて。 それから一生懸命、絵師さんを探すようになったんで すよね。
the most the crafting systems of the Atelier series. In this occasion, we were seeking for an artist that wasn't a lover of the Atelier series. From that point, we did our best to find the appropriate artist for this project.
ーー『アルトネリコ』の中の多くの世界設定について は、さらに昔からあったそうですね。
In regards to the many different elements that were planned inside of the world of [Ar tonelico], all of them were planned since a long time ago, right?
土屋●95くらいですね。大学4年のときにはじめ て、この世界の原型ができました。そのときはまだ塔 はありませんでした海があって、まだ地球は丸かっ た時代ですけど、ほたる横丁、ホルスの翼、プラティ ナが同じくらいの高さにあったんです。空の人と海の 人がいて、空の人っていうのか文明主義で、海の人っ ていうのが自然回帰派で、もともとは同じ人たちだっ たんだけど世界が滅んで大陸がすべて海に沈んじゃっ てから、それぞれの派閥に分かれて暮らしている。
Tsuchiya - Since around 1995. I began creating the model of this world when I was on my fourth year on college. However, in that time, the Tower didn't exist yet, and instead, there was a sea, and while the land still existed, a lot of the places, such as the Wings of Horus, Firefly Alley and Platina were almost the same as how they are now. The people were divided in the People of the Sky and the People of the Sea, with the People of the Sky being the ruling faction, and the People of the Sea being a revolutionary faction, and it originally the both races of people were forced to live separated because of a disaster where all the continents on the world were sunk into the sea.
ーーそのテーブルトークRPGで実際に仲間内で遊ば れたことは？
Did you play that Table RPG with any of your college classmates?
土屋●ありましたが、あまりに特異な世界観すぎて、 プレイヤー的にはつまんなかったみたいです。意味わ かんネェよと。その時に思ったんです。テーブルトー クというのはプレイヤー同士に共通の世界がないと遊 べないから、これはテーブルトーク向きの世界じゃな い......って。3回プレイして終わりましたね、この世 界は。
Tsuchiya - I did, and I thought at the time that with such an unique world setting, the players wouldn't have gotten bored. However, that wasn't the case. The other players didn't want to play a Table RPG whose setting was different from the one they were accustomed, and this wasn't the direction in which I had developed mine... Thus, we finished playing in this world after just three sessions...
ーーそのお仲間に『アルトネリコ』を渡したら面白い でしょうね。
I you gave over the now completed [Ar tonelico] to these classmates, do you think they might find it interesting?
土屋●そうですね。シュレリア様とかってその頃から の人なんで、たぶん名前見たらびっくりするんじゃな いかな。
Tsuchiya - Yes. Mostly because Lady Shurelia already existed since that time, and surely, if they saw her name on the game they would be surprised.
ーーその頃から設定は同じだったんですか？
Shurelia was set as the same character we know in that time already?
土屋●同じのは名前だけですね。今回の世界『ソル シエール』とは違う、『エルカドール』ってオリジナ ル世界なんですけど、その世界では神様という設定で した。魔法神って言って、ルーン魔法を司る神様だっ たんです。そのルーンん魔法の組み合わせから魔法を紡 ぐ仕事をしていて、世界は違えど今の仕事と似ていま す。だから持ってきたっていうのがあるんです。絵と かも当時とは全然違いますけど、性格は比較的似てい ます。
Tsuchiya - Just as a character with her same name. Even if the original world of the game, [El Gadour], was very different to the current world of [Sol Ciel], and she was set there as a Goddess. She was called the Goddess of Magic, and like her title suggests, she was the Goddess that controlled Runic Magic. Because of that, her role was fusing and crafting combined Rune Spells, so as you can see, she had a role that was very similar, yet very different to the one she has now. That is why I brought her to Ar tonelico like that. And though her appearance was completely different, her personality is still relatively similar.
ーー本作での歴史設定はどう作られていきましたか？
How did you make the backstory setting for this project?
土屋●これは第三紀から作りました。もともとは第三 紀と第二紀は1つだったんですが、いろいろあって2 つに分かれて第二紀と第三紀になりました。話の背景 として、詩魔法がどこから発生したのか、世界は何で こんな方なのかっていう歴史がほしくて作ったのが第 一紀です。その頃はただ昔話として設定上作ったって いうだけなんですけどね。
Tsuchiya - I started creating it from the Third Era. Originally, the history only consisted in a combination of the Third and Second Eras, but because of different reasons, we ended splitting it into the two eras we know now. And the First Era was created as simple backstory for the general game, to show the history of how the Song Magic was created, and how the world ended becoming what we see in the game. However, these times aren't described as much more than legends in the game.
ーーシュレリアの過去の物語も詳細に設定されていま すよね。
And that also set the details for the story that tells about Shurelia's past?
土屋●第二紀の物語は内輪では結構人気あるんです。 ユーザーさんはこの本で見るまでわからないと思いま すけど。そういえば『ドッコイフェスティバル (3)』 の中で、タスティエーラが飢え死にしそうになったと きにシュレリアがお弁当をあげて一命をとりとめたと いう話を書いたんですが、その話は第二紀の設定の中 に書いてあります。第三紀のシュレリアとタスティエ ーラからするとギャップがあって、そのシーンは抜き ん出て変なので、微妙で笑えるかも。タスティエーラ も今はあんなに達観しているのに、昔はあんなだった のことか、いろいろ垣間見えるのが第二紀ですね。
Tsuchiya - It's actually the most popular part of the story of the Second Era. Though most people that hasn't read this book probably doesn't know about it, but thta reminds me that in the [Dokkoi Festival (3)], I wrote that Shurelia saved Tastiella's life by giving her lunch box to her when Tastiella was dying from starvation, and that story was included here as part of the setting of the Second Era. It shows a great gap with how Shurelia and Tastiella are in the Third Era, so even if it's a very strange scene, you might smile when you see how wonderful is. Though now Tastiella has a very philosophical outlook of the world, in the past she was much more carefree.
ーー各地域はどう作りましたか？
How did you make each one of the regions?
土屋●テーブルトーク時代からあった場所もたくさん ありますけど、塔を作ってからできた場所っていうの はですね、プラズマベルとか彩音回廊とか、あとシル ヴァホルンですね。塔の機関部分です。あのへんは塔 と一緒に作った設定です。それ以外のプラティナとか ホルスの翼とかはテーブルトーク時代からある地域で すね。プリズムガーデンって今はあんな高いところに あるのに、昔は海の中にあったんです。遠くから見る と輝く宮殿のように見えるんだけれど、近くにいくと 見えないって設定なんですよ。海の中にあるクリスタ ルの神殿で、屈折率で見えたり見えなっかたりする、 だからプリズムガーデン。昔は海に潜って探索するた めの神殿だったんです。
Tsuchiya - Many places come from the Table RPG time of the game, but many others were added after the Tower was created. For example, the Plasma Bell, the Musical Corridor and the Silver Horn are all parts of the machinery of the Tower, and because of that, they were created at the same time as it. The ones that are exceptions to this are Platina and the Wings of Horus, which as I said before, already existed in the Table RPG. The Prism Garden also existed back then, but instead of being in a very high place, it was in the sea. It was a place that when seen from afar it looked like a shining palace, while when looked from close up, it seemed to be a place where nothing existed. It was because it was a crystal palace located in the sea, and depending on from where you were looking at it, the light refraction would make the palace be visible or invisible, thus I named it the Prism Garden. It was a temple that to be found, the player had to dive in the sea.
ーーそれがゲーム作りの中で塔の一番上にきた？
That is the place located in the topmost floor of the Tower in the game?
土屋●そうです。横にひろがっていた要素を縦になら べていったら、一番上にいっちゃった。アルトネリコ という名称の場所もテーブルトーク時代からあったん ですけど、当時は本当に世界樹でした。海の中から生 えている生きてる木、大木でした。
Tsuchiya - That's right. From being a place that extended horizontally beyond the what the eye could see, it ended becoming a place located in the topmost area of the world. And when the game was still a Table RPG, there was also a place called "Ar tonelico", but at the time, it actually was an Yggdrasil-kind of tree. It was an enormous tree that grew out from the sea where it was located.
ーーそれだけ以前から練っていたものが完成していか がですか。
And how complete do you think that was the work you did in adding all these elements to the game?
土屋●今回、自分が表現したいものはすべてやり遂げ た。という感じですね。達成感もありますね。そりゃ 死ぬような思いはしましたが。最初ってつらいですよ ね。続編は続編の苦しみありますけどね。最初の産み の苦しみってのはすごい。
Tsuchiya - This time, I managed to present everything I wanted. And how I feel? I feel accomplished. I thought that I would die, since making the first entry of a new series is hard. In respect to a sequel, there's also the anguish of making one, but the anguish of making the first part is incredible too.
河内●設定はあったけど、ゼロから作っていってね。 何が正しいかが分からない状態で手探りでやってまし たから。
Kawachi - Even if we had the setting, we had to start working from scratch. And it was especially hard because we weren't sure which state would be the right one for the game, and we had to do a lot of fumbling to do the current form.
土屋●実際にこうやって発売日を経て、お客さんが遊 んではじめて分かることが多すぎるというか、そこま で行かないと分かんないんですよね。でもそれを信じ て1年半かけて作んなきゃいけないわけなので。最終 的には自分を信じるしかないんですよ。過去がこうだ ったからと言えないんで。その中で自分が表現した いものとか、こういう構想でやったら皆さんに喜んで もらえるんじゃないかというところっていうのは、紆 余曲折ありましたけど、一通り入れる事ができました。
Tsuchiya - Now that the release day has passed, I don't know how much people will have started playing or understanding the game. I believed that this wasn't something that could have been made in a year and half, but at the end, I didn't have other choice that believing it. I wouldn't have said it in the past either: the things I wanted to present here, how I made them for bringing happiness to all the players, and though we had many ups and downs in this project, in general, I could put in it everything I wished.
河内●最初に話を伺ってから、土屋さんには本当にが んばって作ってもらったわけなんですけど、最初は非 常に試行錯誤しているんですね。僕もたくさん説明受 けましたし、それに対して僕の理解できる範囲では『こ こはこうじゃないの？』と返して、そして次にきたら 全く違うものを持ってこられてビックリしたりみたい なことが、試行錯誤の一言に集約するんですけど。ほ んとに最初の半年くらい膨大にいろいろなものを考 えていただいて、そのとき想定していた世界ってい うのが、最終的にはROM上で具体的になっていって、 想像していた通りのものもあれば、見事に裏切ってい い感じでびっくりさせてもらった部分というのもたく さんあります。最終的に全部の世界がくっついてみる と、けっこう早いうちからいろいろなファクターが全 部関連づけられて、つまいこと『気持ちいい』ってキ ーワードで、バランスがとれているんですね。ダイブ もそうですし、グラスメルクもインストールも、シナ リオにしても第1部、第2部、第3部という構成もこ んなに長くていいのかなぁと思いつつも、それがプレ イするとストーリー的にいいスピードで展開していく っていうところが見えてきて、いろんな意味でいろん な要素を奇蹟のタイミングでつないでいってもらっ て。最終に発売日も間に合うのかってちょっとドキド キした時期もありましてけど(笑)、最終的にはきれ いにまとまったなと、最初に予想していたよりもはる かにいい形でまとまったなという気持ちでしたね。
Kawachi - Talking about the initial conversation we had, I could see that Mr. Tsuchiya was already truly working very hard, but also doing a lot of trial and error experimentations. I also received a lot of explanations, and once I could understand what he was trying to do, I replied [What about if we do it like this?], and a moment later, we were amazed a how different things were coming out from our tries. Really, during around six month we were thinking a lot of different things, about how we should set the world of the game, and until it finally was crystallized in a DVD-ROM, we continued imagining what we could do, and getting unpleasantly surprised everytime the things didn't turn out as we expected, which happened many time. Finally, we managed to make the world completely consistent, which was a great worry because we were developing very quickly many factors, all of them related to each other, with the most important keyword being [feeling good], and began balancing out the game. Making the Dives in a way that looked good to us, and also balancing out Grathmeld and Installs, and thinking that the story was long enough, we divided it into three parts, and we let it develop at the appropriate pace for the players to go through it, and we managed to miraculously tie many symbolisms to elements in the game. When it was finally time to release the game to the market, I was somewhat nervous (laughs). Now that everything has ended, I feel very good that the games has exceeded the expectations I had for it when we started the project.
ヒュムノス語は感情をそのまま 音で表現したもの。感情がすべてです。
The Hymmnos Language is like sounds that expressed emotions. The Emotions are everything.
ーーヒュムノス語の設定は大変だったと思いますが、 ボーカル曲の詞に必要となる言葉はどう作っていきま したか？
We thought that the setting of the Hymmnos Language was a very important part of the game. How did you develop all of the words that were necessary for the lyrics of the songs?
土屋●基本的に『あるものは使う、ないものは作る』 ということでやっていました。ヒュムノスを開発期間 中に作っていた人は4人か5人くらい。音楽の制作を 始める前に、既にシナリオOP曲『謳う丘』だけは 先に作ってあったので、そこで作ったヒュムノス語(4) を詩を作る人に全部渡してもらいました。もちろん法則 はあって、それに沿って作ってねと。
Tsuchiya - We basically applied the saying [We use what we have, and if we don't have something, we will make it]. During the time we were developing the language, we had around 4~5 people working on it. We started working on it before we started making the music, with the sole exception being the opening song [Singing Hills ~ Harmonics EOLIA], since I had already made it before starting with the language, and that song also was the starting point for creating the Hymmnos Language (4), which I then handed down to the rest of the staff. Of course, as an important part of the project, we were working on it in parallel to the game.
(1) 『マリー、エリー&アニスのアトリエ~そよ風からの伝言~』 2003年1月24日発売。バンプレストから発売されたGBA版の『アトリ エ』。このソフトをきっかけとして、両社によるオリジナル作品づくりが スタートすることになった。 (写真は2006年3月23日発売のバンプレストベスト版)
(1) [Atelier Marie, Elie and Anise ~Rumors from the Gentle Breeze~]
Released on January 24th of 2003. This is a GBA [Atelier] game published by Banpresto. Having this game as a precedent ended becoming the start of the original project done in conjunction by both companies. (The boxart in the image is from the Banprest Best edition released on March 23th of 2006).
(2)2000年のRPG構想 密やかに作られた『アルトネ リコ』の前身。魔法のベルを調 合で作り出すRPGだった。『ほ たる横丁町民合報』でも詳しく 語られているので必見だ。
(2)Concept for an RPG from the 2000.
This is the predecessor to [Ar tonelico developed] in secret. It was an RPG focused in the synthesis of magic. If you want to know more details, you can read more about it in the [Firefly Alley Citizen Bulletin Board] section of the Ar Portal.
Page 120:
ーー各単語は音重視なんでしょうか。
Are the sounds important to each one of the words?
土屋●そうです。ヒュムノスワードは基本的に感情が そのまま音になるというのをテーマにしてますから。 感情的に中立っぽい無機質な単語もあるんで、そうい うのはフォローしきれないんですけど、感情が入るも のとか、人が表現できる単語ですよね。ああいうのは 全部、感情がそのまま出る音になるような作っていま す。例えば『ガギグゲゴ』という音は精神的に良くな いときが多いんですよ。『キャッ！』とか『ガッ！』 と言うときってすごい荒れていることが多かったりす る。逆に『ラ』とか『マ』とか『ナ』とかはどちらかと いうとまったり感じじゃないですか。それをその まま素直に単語にしたものがヒュムノスです。劇中で オリカが『Was yant gagis exec suwant Lyner』 って言う場面があるんですよ。オリカがライナー助け て助けてって。これは『悲しみ』と『無り』と『叫び』 のみが入っていています。たとえば『Ma num ra』 という熟語があって『マーヌムラ』って叫べと言われ てもなかなか難しいんですが、『gagis』だったら『ギ ャギス！』って叫べるわけですよ。この感情の時には こういう音が出やすいだろうというのをまず意識し て、そういう感覚的な問題で作っています。ユーザー さんの中で『このヒュムノスというのは、何語ベー スなんだろう』と言われる方がいるんですけど、あり ません。感情がすべてなんです。
Tsuchiya - Yes, they are. Because the Hymmnos Words are fundamentally based on transforming emotions into sounds. Even if there are also inorganic and emotionally-neutral words, which don't follow these rules or allow to put emotions in them, the vocabulary actually allows people to express their feelings. I made it in a way that it could send sounds even with simple words such as "aa". For example, saying sounds like [ga gi gu ge go] is something we do mentally, but sounds such as [Kyaa!] or [Gaah!] are sounds we usually make when we have lost our temper or surprised. But on the contrary, sounds like [Ra], [Ma] or [Na] are sounds that never convey any emotions. That is where Hymmnos enters as an honest vocabulary. During the game, you will see a scene with Aurica saying [Was yant gagis exec suwant Lyner], in which Aurica desperately wanted to save Lyner. What was on this scene was [sadness], [carelessness] and [screaming] only. For example, the phrase [Ma num ra], even if it was mispronounced as [Ma num ra (instead of Ma nam ra)], it would be hard to convey any emotions through it, while with saying [gagis] as [gyagis!] is easy to express an emotion. By using these sounds in the time anyone feels an emotion, it should be easy to consciously convey any emotion, and make sensible questions. And even if the players must be thinking now [And in which language Hymmnos is based from?], this isn't based on other languages. Because the emotions are everything in Hymmnos.
ーー設定上、ヒュムノスがいくつかの『律』に分類さ れているのは？
It was planned to divide Hymmnos into several [Notes] as part of the setting?
土屋●あれば歴史と地理によってかなり細かく分かれ ていて、時間軸で分かれるもの、例えば古メタファル ス律と新約パスタリエとか、あのへんは完全に時間軸 です。中央正純律というのは、あれは歴史とは関係な しによく使うやつをまとめて標準規格にしたやつだっ たりとか、あとは一番古いのがクルトシエール律って やつて。表にすると分かりやすいんですけど。この律 はこの時期に一番栄えて、こっからこいつが派生して、 地域が違って方言になるとクラスタ律になるとか。そ ういうのが全部あるわけです。
Tsuchiya - They were finely divided by historical time and geographic region of origin. For an example of division by historical time, the Ancient Metafalss Note and the New Testament of Pastalie were both created in the same region but in completely different ages. In respect to the Central Standard Note, because it was the Note that was used the most in the world, it ended becoming the standard for the Hymmnos language, and it can be said that is the successor to the oldest Note: the Cult Ciel Note. It used to be the Note that allowed the easiest emotional expression and also was the easiest to understand, so because of that, this Note was the most popular at its time, and from it, the other regions derived their own dialects, such as the Cluster Note that was created in Sol Cluster. That's all there is to it.
ーー新しい単語を考えたとき分類するのは大変ではな いですか？
It isn't hard making new words and deciding under which Note they will be classified?
土屋●意外と決まるものなんですよ。詩を決またとき は、歴史から決めているんですね。今回の12曲すべえ そうです。なんでこの詩がこの世に存在しているの か。
Tsuchiya -The hardest part is deciding the meaning. After they are set in a song, then I decide in which Note they will be classified depending on the story of the song. That was what I did for all of the 12 songs: decide by asking myself "where does this song exist in this world?"
河内●どの時期につくられたかとか。
Kawachi - And in which age it was made as well, right?
土屋●だから詩1つごとに、この律しか使わないとか、 この律がだいたい傾向ですよとかあるんです。たとえ ば一番分かりやすいのがミュールが紡いだ『ハーモニ ウス』です。ミュールは第二紀の人なんですけど、太 古のメタファルスという文明に憧れているんです。そ れゆえに彼女の紡ぐ詩というのは古メタファルス律が ほとんどなんです。この律はメタファルスの文化が形 成したヒュムノスワードで作られたものです。単語1 つのエネルギーがとても大きく、そして劇的に難しい という特性を持つ古メタファルス律。ミュールはそれ が大好きだったので、そればっかり使っている。逆に、 『リンカ』『サスペンド』とかあのへんは中央正純律で す。なぜかというと、アルトネリコという塔が中央だ ったから。その塔を制御するのは全部共通語なんです。 『リンカ』とかは、詩としてはとても古い詩なんだけど、 後に規格化された中央正純律になるんです。ただ、そ のなかでも標準規格に入れなかった単語がたまにあっ て、それはクルトシエール律と呼ばれています。
Tsuchiya - That why I give different priorities to the Notes for each individual song, depending on what is the general tendency of the song. For example, the easiest one to decide was the song that Mir crafted: [Harmonious]. Mir was created by the humans of the Second Age, but she admired the ancient civilization that once existed in Metafalss. Because of that, she extensively uses the Ancient Metafalss Note in the songs she crafts. This Note is made up from all the Hymmnos Words that were created by the Metafalssian civilization. Each one of these words has as special characteristics having a great energy level, and being dramatically hard to use, and in conjunction they are called the Ancient Metafalss Note. Mir loved that Note, and that's why she uses it so much. On the contrary, songs like [Linker] and [Suspend] belong to the Central Standard Note, called that because the Tower of Ar tonelico was the central part of the development of the modern Hymmnos language, and these songs are in the standard language used for controlling all of the Tower. In regards to [Linker], though it was a very ancient song, it ended being standardized as a song of the Central Standard Note. However, if it wasn't included as a word for the standardization process, Linker would have belonged to the Cult Ciel Note because of its antiquity.
河内●うやぁ、難しいなぁ (笑)。
Kawachi - Whoa, that's complicated. (laughs)
土屋●クルトシエール律というのは、古語なんですよ。 日本で言う古文。それが現代文になったものが中央正 純律なんです。だからここは地域的に一緒です。そこ から地域を地球の裏側に飛んでいったやつがクラスタ 律ってやつで、これは大阪弁みたいなもんです。あと は『クロニクルキー』が世界の中でもかなり新しい曲 なんですけど、あれはシュレリアがアルトネリコとい う塔で機能するだけのために作ったものなので、アル ファ律が入っています。アルファ律は塔の管理者がそ の塔でしか使えないカスタマイズされた単語。『クロ ニクルキー』は他で謳っても何の意味もないんです。 エラーが出ます。その塔だからこそ、それに対となる コンパイラがあるんです。という律があったりとか、 まぁいろいろですね。
Tsuchiya - And well, the Cult Ciel Note is simply an obsolete language, basically what we would call archaic Japanese here in Japan (or Old English in the English-speaking countries), and it was basically replaced by the Central Standard Note in the current civilization. And here is where the regional element comes in: if we flied from Sol Ciel to the region that is on the opposite side of the planet, we would see the speakers of the Cluster Note, which would be like the Osaka dialect to the Tokyo inhabitants. And afterwards, we have the [Chronicle Key], which is a relatively song in the game's world, and it was entered into a group of words made by Shurelia to solely expand the functions of the Tower of Ar tonelico, called the Alpha Note. This Note is a customized language that can be only used in the Tower of the Administrator that created it. If [Chronicle Key] was sung in other Tower, it wouldn't mean anything, and the other Tower would just give off an error message. That is because the Tower where the word was originally made becomes like a compiler to it. And that would be the same case for similar Notes from the other Towers.
『この音楽はこのゲームに欠かせない』 って言ってほしかった
I just wanted them to say that [This music is something inseparable from this game]
ーー楽曲づくりはどうでしたか？
How the music of this game was composed?
河内●基本的には、土屋さんから最初に方向性を聞か せてもらって、あとはこういう感じにまとまっていっ てますというのを聞かせていただいて『ぜんぜんいい でしょう』となりました。本当に最初からしっかりと どういう詩を作っていくかというイメージができてい たので、それに対してバンプレスト側からこう変えて くれっていうのは、ほとんどなかったですね。
Kawachi - Basically, the course of action from the start was that Mr. Tsuchiya would let me listen to each one of the songs that was composed until my feelings about them were settled, and I said [well, they might be good]. Actually, from the start, the composers were able to give an specific image to each one of the songs that were composed, so the staff from Banpresto didn't to change anything after the composition and arranging process was finished.
土屋●詩に関してはワガママやらせてもらえて、大光 栄ですというところです。たぶんゴネられても絶対に 譲らなかったところですか。一番最初に、ゲームの企 画書と一緒に詩企画書を書いた。そこからのスタート だったんです。サウンドをやっている身としては、昔か らの夢だったんですよ。歌というものが、ただの挿入 歌とか、オープニングテーマとエンディングテーマ とかではなくて、その世界の中で謳われている歌で感 動を呼び起こせるストーリー、世界というものを作り たかった。いわゆる『物語も歴史もある曲』ですよね。 ふつうゲームの楽曲だとBGM然としているものが多 いじゃないですか。RPGでもなんでも『音ってあれ ば盛り上がるけど、なくてもゲームは成り立つじゃん』 というレベルで考えられているんですよ。絵について はみんなすごい議論するんだけど、音は『いいね』と か『クソ』とか言うくらいで、だから何っていう感じ のところがやっぱりある。サウンドをやっていてそれ がすごく嫌で、やっぱり音楽で1本とりたかった。た だ単に『音楽いいね』ていうレベルではなくて『音楽 はこのゲームに絶対欠かせない』って言うってほしかっ たんですよ。物語と世界と絵と音というのは4つ揃っ てははじめてひとつの大きな感動を生み出すものと考え てます。その中の音楽というものに、ものすごくこだ わりたい。そして音楽っていうのはゲームにとってこ んなに重要なファクターなんだよ！っていうか、こん なに大切なものなだっていうのを感じてほしいなと 思っていたんですね。これはまだサウンド専属で仕事 していた頃から思っていたもの。イリスの頃とかから いろいろとご縁があって、今の人たちに知り合ってい って『ああこれはいけるかも』と感じて作った今回は、 そういう意味では昔から考えていた想いの集大成です ね。 (5)
Tsuchiya - In relation to the songs, we had the freedom of making the songs as we pleased, and that was a great honor for us. But if they asked us to turn over the songs for them to make, we would have completely refused? In the first place, I wrote both the projects for making the game itself and the music. That is the start of all. To be able to embody these sounds into a game was a dream I had for a very long time! The songs we inserted in the game weren't just songs that we added for the sake of adding them, and they weren't limited just to the Opening and Ending themes, because this a story that springs emotions from the songs that are sung in that world, and we made the world in that way as well. Namely, it's a world [where the story and backstory exist together with the melodies]. Do you thing these are songs made for any game or BGM-like music only? You can think of any RPG as a game [Where if there are sounds, it rouses your emotions, but it doesn't consist completely of sounds]. It could be pictured as great discussion where everyone can say anything about the sounds, from [They are great] to [They're crap!], and that would mean the emotions that they can awake on you depending on your personality. Even to the ones that hate the most the sounds, these should have at least 1 song they like. Putting it simply, I don't want anyone to say something on the level of [This music is the greatest thing on the world!], but I just wanted them to say [This music is something inseparable from this game]. I thought from the start that the music, the story, the world, and the art are the four parts that should awake the most emotions of everyone, and between them, I think that the music is the one I want the most to be appreciated by everyone. "And that is because the music is the most important factor to this game!".. or at least that is what I want everyone to feel so they understand how an important part of this game it ended becoming. You could be thinking that I have been working exclusively on these sounds since some time ago, and well, since the time we composed the music for the first Atelier Iris, among other things, I have been doing works related to this project, and I wanted everyone to become familiar with it. That why I made this, thinking that [Ah, it might come out well] if I made it, and to show you all the meaning of this project, I have also done a compilation of all my thoughts and feelings about it since a long time ago.
ーー歌詞を見た後に、もう一回プレイして聴いたら泣 けたという方もいるようです。
If I played the game again after reading the lyrics of the songs, and cried while listening to them, these would be the kind of reactions you would like to get?
土屋●もうそれは、なんて言ったらいいんだろう。私 の想いをそのまま受け取ってもらえて、とても嬉しい です。
Tsuchiya - That would be much more than what I wanted, actually. If you can actually receive the feelings I put into them, no matter how strongly you react, I will still very happy.
河内●伝えたかったことをちゃんとみんなが受け止め てくれたって感じだよね。
Kawachi - I feel that everyone could perfectly have received what is being conveyed in the game.
土屋●それです。それです。ゲームをプレイして聴い てほしいんです！そしたら感動が3倍にも10倍にも なるんです。この事、実は明には書いてはないんです けど、いろんな所でアプローチしてます。今話急騰 中 (？) の楽譜集 (6) の一番後ろのコラムだとか、『星 読』『月奏』のディレクターズコメントとか、あとは CDのアンケートを書いてもらった結果として見られ るコメント群とか全てで。この曲達は、ゲームの一部 で......なぜならこういう想いが秘められていて、オリ カはミシャはこんな思いで謳うからこういう歌詞で！ というのを見てほしい。それくらい曲単独ではなくて、 ゲームの中の曲を聴いてほしかったんです。そうした ら絶対に曲だけよりも感動は上がるっていう自信があ ったんですよね。何でそんな自信があったかって言う と、その曲の詞からイメージから進行にいたるまです べてゲームの演出に合わせて作っていますから、そこ まできてなんぼなんですよ。シナリオ脚本に、盛り上 がり位置や静かな位置、声とセリフが干渉しないよう にする位置など、全部秒数指定で書いたくらい。
Tsuchiya - That is... That's right... I want you all to listen carefully as you play through the game! Then, you feelings might be increased threefold, or even tenfold. About this, even if I didn't write it clearly, I gave to it various kinds of approach. During the sudden jump in this conversation (?), what I just remembered and said was what I wrote in a column in the back cover of the sheet music book of the opening and ending songs (6), the Director's Comments of the Hymmnos Concerts [Hoshiyomi] and [Tsukikanade], and the Enquete Comments of each one of the music CD's, and it surely had the same effects as if you read any of all of these comments. These songs are a part of the game... because our feelings have been hidden in them as the feelings of the song lyrics you heard Misha and Aurica singing! Because of that, these songs aren't independent of the game, and actually I wish that all of you listen to them in the game. If you do so, I'm totally confident that you will be able to feel them as much more than simple songs. And the reason why I'm so confident is because we have advanced from portraying the images in the song lyrics as actual events in the production of the game, setting them in the climaxes and in the most peaceful moments, and made the song in way that the lines and the voices wouldn't clash with each other, because we wrote all of these songs almost to a per-second degree.
(3) ドッコイ フェスティバル 『アルトネリコ』公式 ホームページ内に作ら れた、発売前の盛り上 げ企画コーナー。歌 手陣も巻き込んでの 『15の問題』では、本 作への愛情あふれるコ メントが見られる。
(3) Dokkoi Festival
A section created in the official website of [Ar tonelico], as the project corner for the release day of the game. The singers were also involved in its [15 Questions], and you can read in there comments overflowing with affection for this project.
(4) ヒュムノサーバー 制作スタッフの資料用 に開設されたヒュムノ ス語データベース。設 定解説と単語辞典があ り、フォントダウンロ ードも可能。本書では 解説しきれなかった単 語の意味はこちらで。
(4) Hymmno Server
An Hymmnos language database made by the project staff in charge of the materials used in the setting of the game. There is a setting explanation and a word dictionary, and it's also possible to download the Hymmnos text font in there. The meanings of any words that weren't explained in this book can be found there.
Page 121:
制作スタッフでは人気の低いシュレリア。 果たしてその理由とは......？
Among the project staff, the least popular character was Shurelia. What was the reason for that...?
ヒロイン3人、制作スタッフでは誰が一番人気で しか？
Between the three heroines, which one was the most popular between the project staff?
土屋●珍しくガスト内でこの話で盛り上げったんっです よ。年末の納会ときに多数決までとったくらいで。 『オリカ派の人、はーい』とか (笑)。 まぁ酔った拍子っていうのもあるんだけど。社内で一 番人気はミシャでした。オリカとミシャはだいたい同 じくらいだったんですけど、オリカのほうが若干少な くて、シュレリア様は1人もいませんでした。
Tsuchiya - There is very curious story about this that happened inside of Gust. During the last meeting of the year, we intended to decide it through majority vote: such as [Supporters of Aurica, Yes!] (laughs). Though that was when we all were drunk out. In the company, the most popular was Misha. Aurica and Misha had approximately the same popularity, but even less popular than Aurica was Lady Shurelia, since not even 1 person voted for her.
ーーそうなんですか。
Is that right?
土屋●社内ではシュレリア様はちょい微妙みたいで す。理由は『美味しいところかっさらってくから』と か『あれはツンデレじゃねぇ。デレデレだ』と......。 まあ、おバカ話の一巻またいな感じですけど。
Tsuchiya - For the company people, Lady Shurelia seemed as a too complex character. The reasons for not voting for her were things such as [She seems as her flavor was snatched away] or [She isn't a Tsundere! She is just a Deredere!]... Though I feel that these reasons are quite stupid.
ーー序盤から、オリカとミシャのコスモスフィアを通 じてライナーに告白したりしてますよね。
Since the start, it was decided that Misha and Aurica would confess their feelings to Lyner through their Cosmospheres?
土屋●あれは意図的にやってることではないです。『シ ュレリア様が情報操作した』って感想も聞いたりして いますが、違うんです。シュレリア様はコスモスフィ アは無いですけど、深層意識はちゃんと持っています。 その深層意識が漏れるんです。オリカやミシャは、レ ベル8とか9の自分を自覚めできないんですけど、それ と同じ事なんです。この辺は濃い設定になりますが『レ ーヴァテイルの共通意識』という設定に準じて作って います。レーヴァテイルは全員、意識の根っこでつな がってるんです。シュレリアは塔そのものですから、 その根っ子のところでレーヴァテイル全員と均等にく っついているんです。だから想いが出やすいんですよ。 シュレリアがミシャに作用するには1バスなんだけれ ど、オリカがミシャに作用するには2バス以上なんで すよ。扉2枚以上くぐらなくちゃいけないのでなかな か行けない。でも本当は全員が深層意識でつながって いるので、全員が行き来はできるんです。それぞれが 強い想いを紡ぐとつながったりもできて、つながると ものすごく強い魔法を出せたりするんです。本作では 出てきませんけどね。そういう世界です。シュレリア だけができるというわけではありませんし、シュレリ アとはいえ意識的にできるものでもありません。
Tsuchiya - That wasn't something we intended to do. Even though you were told that [Lady Shurelia modified the data of the game] and have that impression, that actually isn't the case. Even though Lady Shurelia doesn't have a Cosmosphere, she also has a deep subconscious. Similarly to how Misha and Aurica don't know anything that happens in their deepest Cosmospheres, such as Level 8 and Level 9, that is the same case for her. This deep area became what is known as the [Shared Consciousness of the Reyvateils], and it functions as it was set to be made. This is the are where the roots of the consciousness of all the Reyvateil connect, and because Lady Shurelia is also a Reyvateil, even though she is the Tower Administrator, she is also connected to all of these roots. Because of that, her feelings spout easily. However, while Shurelia acted only upon a bus of Misha's memory, she also acted upon more than two buses on Aurica's, and she can't go beyond 2 Boundary Gates at the same time. But, all of them are truly connected to each other. Each one of them is able to craft strong feelings and connect them, and if they connect them, they will turn into a much stronger form of magic. However, even though that is possible in that world, this isn't something that can't be made in this game. And Shurelia isn't the only one that can do that, but she isn't conscious either that something like this is possible.
ライナーが『気付く』ことで伝えたい もうひとつのテーマ『共存』
Through the [realizations] that Lyner made, there is one more theme we want to convey: [Coexistence].
ーヒロインの魅力以外の部分ではどうですか？
How about the parts that are outside of the charm of the heroines?
河内●おかげさまで『感動しました』というご意見も たくさん集まってきています。最初は『ムスメ調合』 というジャンル名に引かれたのかもしれないですけ ど。
Kawachi - Thanks to [moving the emotions of everyone], we were able to collect a lot of opinions. Though we thought that the genre name we set initially, [Girl Support], would charm the people too.
ーーストーリーの面では、極端な悪役はボルドくらい ですよね。
In the story, Bourd seemed like an extremely evil villain, no?
河内●分かりやすい悪を演じてくれましたから。
Kawachi - Well, that because is easier to understand a character that commits evil acts.
土屋●あいつも結局スケープゴートだったというか、 ライナーが『気づく』ために、ああいう物語を持たせ てあるというか。ボルドはボルドなりに一生懸命生き ているんですよ。私の持論としてあるのは、人間とい うのは根っから悪いことばっかしようと思って生きて いる人っていないと思ってるんですよね......。人によ っては『ぬるい』って言うと思うんですけど。例えば 『破壊しよう』とか『あいつ殺す』とか『こういう悪 巧みをしてやろう』っていうのは、必ず理由があるん ですよ。それで根っこにあるものっていうのは決して 悪じゃない。ただ、それを頭で理解していても、受け 入れて本質を分かち合おうとすることは、とても大変 な事です。人なんて、なかなか心を開いてくれるもの じゃないし、その課程で自分も相手も傷つくこともあ るし......。でも自分が開いていって、相手が開いてく れて、相手のことを知ればその理由も分かって、分か ったら、共感できるかもしれないし、共存できるかもし れない。でも今の世の中は、それをやらなさ過ぎる。『こ の人はこういう人だから』ですぐに色眼鏡で見ちゃっ たりとか、もっとひどいと『この集団にいるからこの 人はダメ』とか。でもそうじゃないでしょ！っていう のをライナーを通じて伝えたかったんです。ファルス 司祭も近い場合の役なんですけど、ボルドと1つ違う 点があります。ファルスは最後に何でそんなことをし たのか自分で語りますよね。でもボルドは語らないん です。だからボルドは悪として死んでいっちゃう。フ ァルス司祭のほうは悪なのか、自分が力を欲しがって いたのかそれとも......という謎を残して死んでいっち ゃう。で、ライナーが考えていくんですよ。それだ んだん『人を倒していく=他人に勝つ』という事がど ういうことなのかっていうのを自分で考えていって、 成長していく。それで最終的に行き着く結論が『共存 =共に勝つ』なんですよね。人を色眼鏡で見ない。全 ての人は何かするときには必ず理由があるし、それは 必ず知る必要があるんだというところに行き着きたか った。これがこのゲームの一番真剣で強い想いを持っ たテーマです。
Tsuchiya - I would say that was because we used him as an scapegoat, so Lyner could [realize], and you would say "ah~" once you saw the weight that has on the story. Bourd simply had a very hard determination to continue living. I lived thinking that some humans were inherently evil, and that they could never be called people... However, I could also say that I have [lukewarm] thoughts about the people. There has to be a reason for saying things such as: [I will destroy it!], [I'm gonna kill that bastard!] or [Damned schemer!]. Still, if we understood them with our minds, and understood mutually the true essence of each person, it would be great. The people usually doesn't want to open their hearts to each other, and by doing so, they only end jurting the other... However, by opening ourselves, the other people around us will open themselves as well, and if we knew and understood the reasons behind their actions, we might be able to coexist with them, though we might not be able to do so as well. However, in the current society, almost anyone overlooks this. With things such as [It's because this person is like this] or [Because he/she belongs to this group, he/she sucks], that kind of mentality may make me look as someone that looks to the world through pink-colored glasses, but that is an awful form of thinking. "But is that even right!?", that is what I wanted to convey through Lyner. Even Bishop Falss was the closest person to Bourd, there was a big difference between both: Falss would always speak a lot about himself in arrogant form, while Bourd was a person that hated talking. Because of that, Bourd ended dying as an evil person, while Falss ended becoming evil because of his excessive hunger for power.... and both also left various mysteries behind their actions when they died. Then, Lyner began to think about this. What he thought was [If I defeat someone else = I win], which was how his course of action was until he matured. Then finally arrived to the conclusion of [If we coexist = We all win together], and that isn't looking to the world through pink-colored glasses. There must always be reasons for everything that the people does, and it's necessary that we know about them to be able to arrive to conclusions that will allow us to live together in peace. This is the most seriously strong feeling contained in the themes of this game.
ーー『共存』せずにタスティエーラとミュールを倒し てクリアもできますよね。
Though it seems that [It's impossible to coexist] if you clear the game by defeating Tastiella and Mir, no?
土屋●ええ。早いうちからボス戦ができるので、ゲー ム性としては難度が高くてシビレる方がいらっしゃる みたいです。あのエンドは問題を投げかけながら終わ っていきますけど、タスティエーラとミュールを倒 した後のセリフはかなり厳しめに書いてるんです。 それも選択するのはユーザーさんですから、選択して こういう結果なんですよということをちゃんと伝えて あげたかったので厳しめに書きました。あそこが一番 厳しいかな。そういう意味で言うと。
Tsuchiya - Yes. But even if you are able to fight the final battle early, if you tried doing so, it would only lead you to severely raising the difficulty degree of the game. But that ending only shows that even if you finished the game, you failed to solve the actual root of the problem, as denoted by how harsh is the writing in the lines after you defeat Tastiella and Mir. Because that is what the player chose, we also wanted to convey that these choices also carry consequences by making these lines harsher, and these are in fact the harshest lines in all the game. That is what this ending means.
ーー最後に、プレイヤー皆様へメッセージを。
To end this interview, there is any message you want to send to the players?
土屋●このゲームをプレイしてくれた皆さんが、何か しら心の中に暖かいものを残してくれること......これ が私にとって一番の喜びです。ゲームをやるっていう のは、べつに生活に必要なことじゃないですよね。そ れでもゲームをやってくれる人っていうのは、そのゲ ームを信て時間を作ってプレイしてくれるわけで す。だからその人に作り手としてはいいものをプレ ゼントしたいんです。そういう思いで作ってきた。そ して、プレイしてくれてありがとうっていつも思って ます。これから何を作るにしてもこのコンセプトは変 わらないです。常にプレイしてくれた方に暖かいもの が残るものを出していきたいという想いをずっと持っ て作っていきます。
Tsuchiya - After you all have played this game, it's possible that some warmth can remain in your hearts... and if that happens, that will be the maximum happiness for me. Making this game wasn't something I needed to continue living, but the people that make the game always do them because they believe that game will be played the same time they invested in making it. Because of that, the creators always try to give good things as presents to the players, and that was the mentality I had while working on this project. And thus, I want to give my heartfelt thanks to everyone for playing it. No matter what I might make from now on, that creation concept won't change. Giving away warmth that might remain on you from constantly playing through the game is the kind of feelings I want to put from now in everything I work on.
河内●立ち上げのときに『キャラクター作りって面白 い』というところからスタートした部分もあり、オリ カもミシャもシュレリアもみなさんに受け入れられ て、可愛がってくれてるなぁと感じていますので、当 初の目的としてのキャラ作りというところは、ひとつ 成功の一歩を踏んだのではないかと思います。ヒロイ ン以外のキャラクターたちもゲーム以外のいろんなメ ディアで展開していますし、それらのキャラクターが 今後どういう形で皆さんの手元に届くのかわりませ んが、アルトネリコの世界はまだまだ広がっていき、 キャラクターたちも生きつづけると思いますので、そ の子たちを可愛がっていただければと思います。
Kawachi - When we started working, I said that [the characters of this project seem to be very interesting], and was one of the reasons to start this project, and now that I see that characters like Aurica, Misha and Shurelia were so well-received by everyone, I feel very loved as well, and one of our original goals was to make characters like that, and I don't think that we would have be able to do that successfully if we didn't go an step at a time. And aside from the heroines, the other characters will receive also their own forms of development in media separate from the game, in which way or which characters will reach the hands of everyone is something we don't know yet, but the world of Ar tonelico will continue expanding, and I think that its characters will continue living as well, and I love them as if they were my own children.
(2006年2月6日)
(Date of the Interview: February 6th, 2006)
(5) ほたる横丁町民合報 公式ホームページ内の1 コーナーで、土屋ディレ クターと河内プロデュー サーが交代で語る制作秘 話が満載。今作の歌い手 達との出会いのエピソー ドは、ここで詳しく語ら れている。
(5) Firefly Alley Citizen Bulletin Board
It's one corner in the official page, where Director Tsuchiya and Produce Kawachi have alternating filling it with secret stories about this project. Currently, there are episodes about the meeting with the singers of this project, and these are talked about in detail here.
(6) 楽譜集『HYMMNOTE』
(6) Sheet Music Collection [Hymmnote]
CD『オリジナルサウンド トラック』の初回特典とし て配布された冊子で、『謳 う丘』と『ファンタスマゴ リア』の楽譜が叫録されて いる。ネットオークション では驚きの高値が付けてい ることも......。
It's an small booklet that came as the preorder bonus for the first edition of the [Ar tonelico Original Soundtrack CD], containing the sheet music for [Singing Hills] and [Phantasmagoria]. Its price has raised quite a lot in the online auction sites...
