Answering your AT canon-related questions (At1,2&3 spoilers)

[wizzardx]

So... my (silly) AT canon question this time is...

Spoiler for "At1":  [ Open ]

Did we ever find out why Lyner forgot about Misha?

Spoiler for "This thread and spoilers...inside a spoiler tag":  [ Open ]

Also... Just as an aside... Maybe the thread title should just be marked as "spoilers" for At1 & 2? I'm always hesitant to put too much outside of spoiler boxes here just in case, but it seems as though these questions often delve deep into the games and necessitate including spoilers at one point or another.

Still, I don't want to just decide this for myself ^^;

Um, you don't need to use spoiler tags for At1 & At2 material. I thought it was pretty much a given, based on my posts so far covering both At1 & 2. But I've gone and changed the topic title, and also added a warning to the bottom of the first post

If people have only played the one game or the other, but still have random questions, then if they let me know, then I'll start another topic (only At1 spoilers, only At2 spoilers, etc).

About your question:

Nope, as far as I know, the reason behind Lyner's amnesia is never explained

I think that tvtropes sums it up nicely:

"Misha of the first Ar Tonelico game spends a good half the game trying to convince Lyner that she and he grew up together. It takes most of the game before he remembers - and it's up to the player's choice eight hours ago whether or not she's the Unlucky Childhood Friend or Victorious Childhood Friend (barring going for the secret Love Interest...) "

I think we can assume that Lyner is bit too much of an idiot hero, and just plain forgot. It's not unheard of IRL (some people just have really bad long-term memories, like myself ), and it does come up fairly often in anime/manga/etc.

[Niyaya]

Um, you don't need to use spoiler tags for At1 & At2 material. I thought it was pretty much a given, based on my posts so far covering both At1 & 2. But I've gone and changed the topic title, and also added a warning to the bottom of the first post

Okay, thanks! Sorry, I just like to make sure ^^;

About your question:

Nope, as far as I know, the reason behind Lyner's amnesia is never explained

I think that tvtropes sums it up nicely:

"Misha of the first Ar Tonelico game spends a good half the game trying to convince Lyner that she and he grew up together. It takes most of the game before he remembers - and it's up to the player's choice eight hours ago whether or not she's the Unlucky Childhood Friend or Victorious Childhood Friend (barring going for the secret Love Interest...) "

I think we can assume that Lyner is bit too much of an idiot hero, and just plain forgot. It's not unheard of IRL (some people just have really bad long-term memories, like myself ), and it does come up fairly often in anime/manga/etc.

Okay. I ask because I started to wonder... It was clear that Lyner had a lot of deep feelings for Misha in the past, given the way he crafted Hama, and the significance it held for Misha. So I wondered if, after Misha left, if Lyner, essentially, made himself forget her, thinking that she would be the Chronicle Key forever after. I don't know.

My next question is back to the topic of hymn codes! We know that the hymn codes are in the space just beyond cosmosphere level 9 and before the shared consciousness field.

Something has to be in this area, doesn't it? Whether or not the reyvateil has a hymn code, this region exists.

So, I had a few thoughts on how this might work. The first is that the actual hymn code isn't in this 100Hz band, but this area is just a code that can be used to look up the actual hymn code in the song server. Since Aurica's code was just similar to Mir's, when the lookup happened, the server said ...eh... close enough, and returned Mir's code.

The other is that the actual code /is/ contained within this area directly, and so, when a download is about to happen, the server just looks up the reyvateil's code to ensure that the request and the code match, and if it does, allows the download to proceed.

If it's the later case, then it would seem as though /all/ reyvateils had a code though, but it may be ... gibberish. Or it may be an invalid code. (I guess 100Hz doesn't seem like much to store data, to me, but I also don't know anything about how data is encoded so... )

Just wondered if either is correct, (or seems likely), or if someone knew how it actually works.

Thanks!

[Poupette]

3) Where does Frelia's power come from?

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

In the game, it's mentiond several times, that Frelia's power has been used too much, and any more power used, and the world will be destroyed (ie, the plates along the Rim will start to collapse into the Sea of Death). In other words, Frelia's power is being used continuously to keep the Rim afloat.

Now my question is, where does Frelia's power come from, or where is it stored? And how does it (or doesn't it) get recharged over time?

Some available information:

- Installation of Frelia's D Cellophane allows Reyvateils to access Frelia's conciousness, knowledge, and powers.
- When a Reyvateil uses Frelia's powers (via a Pact Spell), that Reyvateil either extracts resources from Frelia's Binary Field directly (connection lines), or has the effect of Frelia singing the song (activation lines).
- Frelia's Binary Field is stored in Sol Marta
- All of Sol Marta's power comes from the First Tower (the original plan was for Sol Marta to generate it's own power).
- The power output of the First Tower dropped significantly in the Grathnode Inferia (actually, the output of the First Tower was basically killed off at that point, until the Silver Horn was created).
- Recently, the output of the First Tower was reduced (Shurelia's Suspend), which forced Rhaki to reduce Sol Marta's output by 50%, for preservation purposes, but causing a large number of collapses.
- Frelia can feel major events within The Rim and within Sol Marta (which is probably similar to Shurelia's nerve connection to her Tower).

Given the above points, my basic theory is that Frelia's power store, is actually Sol Marta itself (or at least, an area within Sol Marta's Binary Field that's normally reserved for Frelia's use, ie her Binary Field). When Shun, Raki, and others talk about depleting of Frelia's power, they're talking about Sol Marta's power.

One interesting point, is that over time, Frelia's power actually gets lower and stays at that low level, rather than being automatically replenished from the First Tower. The implication is that Sol Marta does have some reserve energy, but besides that reserve, all of the energy being received from the First Tower is already being used for the task of keeping the Rim afloat. So, when Reyvateils use Frelia's power too much, they are actually depleting Sol Marta's last reserves, up to the point, where Sol Marta is barely able to power the Lift Generators that keep the Rim and other parts of Metafalss afloat.

I imagine that in the past, before the Grathnode Inferia, that the First Tower's output level was much higher, meaning that Sol Marta (and Frelia) had more than enough power for creating the Second Tower. But as soon as the GI occurred, Sol Marta's power reserves started being depleted rapidly, up until the Silver Horn was created at the First Tower. At which point, Sol Marta started receiving just barely enough power to keep the Lift Generators (and other parts of Metafalss, eg the Tower and Musical Corridoors) functioning, without further depeleting Sol Marta's reserves. At least until the Holy Maidens started using Frelia's D Cellophane.

Um, so how does the above theory sound? ^^;

Exactly my thoughts, actually. This is what I believe as well, and it does make sense.

[wizzardx]

Okay, thanks! Sorry, I just like to make sure ^^;

It might also be due to my misuse of spoiler tags to help make my walls of text (especially in my second post), more readable

Okay. I ask because I started to wonder... It was clear that Lyner had a lot of deep feelings for Misha in the past, given the way he crafted Hama, and the significance it held for Misha. So I wondered if, after Misha left, if Lyner, essentially, made himself forget her, thinking that she would be the Chronicle Key forever after. I don't know.

That's impossible to know, without some more (translated) information from the game creators. I'd be surprised if Misha or Lyner haven't already been asked about this in Toukousphere. But either it hasn't been answered yet in Toukousphere, or the answer hasn't been translated yet. Maybe one of our members who know Japanese could do some Japanese Google searches and see what comes up?

For now, the best we can do is speculate about Lyner's childhood, like what happened to Lyner's mom and the rest of his family besides his dad. Compared to Lyner, Croix's background is a lot more detailed.

I think that the wiki page here is about as much info as there is available on the young Knight of Elemia, besides the game itself

I guess the closest thing to a clue about Lyner's memories is this and this.

Something has to be in this area, doesn't it? Whether or not the reyvateil has a hymn code, this region exists.

Well, according this, that part of the CS is basically a very stable area, to which data can be "attached" in a relatively secure way, like Hymn Codes for instance. According to this (and also this), Hymn Codes are used as a type of safeguard for weaker Reyvaeils.

So, I had a few thoughts on how this might work.
The first is that the actual hymn code isn't in this 100Hz band, but this area is just a code that can be used to look up the actual hymn code in the song server.

This section is kind of complicated, but based on that section, and a few other references, I think that there are 2 different things that Hymn Code refers to:

1) A stable and hard-to-modify area of the CS, based partly on the RT's genetic data, and not passed down to descendents.

I think that this part is fairly important. Since the area is hard to modify (by the individual's feelings), I don't think that the Tower, or the Engineers go in there and start writing new data. That would be pretty invasive I think. By the sounds of that section (talking about the Tower doing FFT scans for comparison), it sounds more like the area is used as a unique area for comparison (like a fingerprint), to verify the spoken Hymn Code, against the Tower's records for that Reyvateil.

2) An actual password (stored in the Tower).

Based on that section, and a few others (for instance, Frelia living without a Hymn Code when she was young, here), I think that the CS area (definition 1) is like your fingerprints, and the password (definition 2), is like your Social Security number.

The password was originally allocated to Reyvateils by the Tower, but that's been broken for a while now.

Another way of looking at it:

Reyvateil = Product in a store (eg: ¥480 Pork Cutlet).
Hymn Code = Bar Code for ¥480 Pork Cutlet (added by Tower Engineers)
Tower = Bar Code scanner, that recognizes the ¥480 Pork Cutlet, based on it's bar code.

Like in this Toukousphere article

Since Aurica's code was just similar to Mir's, when the lookup happened, the server said ...eh... close enough, and returned Mir's code.

More like Mir deliberately caused a glitch in the Tower, causing it to give Aurica the same Hymn Code:

From here:

However, as soon as she started singing, Mir tried to forcibly possess her. This happened because Mir exploited an error in the Tower's systems and transferred her hymn code to Aurica, allowing her to sing the Extract type hymns, but also made her vulnerable to Mir's posession, and allowed the viruses to materialize from her Cosmosphere

That might be kind of like, eg:

1) Hacking the government database, and giving your SSN to someone else (even though they have different fingerprints to you)

2) Making a copy of the ¥480 Pork Cutlet barcode, and attaching that to some other product.

The other is that the actual code /is/ contained within this area directly, and so, when a download is about to happen, the server just looks up the reyvateil's code to ensure that the request and the code match, and if it does, allows the download to proceed.

At the moment, my impression is that the Hymn Code area is more like a fingerprint/signature/something unique and hard to change, rather than containing the actual hymn code, or being an area where you can easily change the data to something else.

If it's the later case, then it would seem as though /all/ reyvateils had a code though, but it may be ... gibberish. Or it may be an invalid code. (I guess 100Hz doesn't seem like much to store data, to me, but I also don't know anything about how data is encoded so... )

Most likely all RTs have a unique Hymn Code (fingerprint-like) area, but only a small subset of them (basically, just the Origins and Betas) have Hymn Codes (passwords) registered with the Tower.

Also, about an earlier question, with regards to wordless songs. Based on something I read a bit earlier (while researching Hymn Codes, lol), there is some more plausibility:

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_translations/Encyclopedia_section#Song_Magic

Basically, the Tower uses the feelings directly, rather than the sound (although the sound also plays a role).

However, it is only with the act of singing, that the complex patterns of feelings come out from the brain:

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Wave_T ... me_Axis.29

So, I think that theoretically, it may be possible to "sing" in your mind, and have those feelings be translated directly into actions by the Tower, at least if you're able to draw out the powerful and complicated feelings from your mind in the same way as while actual physical singing. But I think this might be a very difficult/complicated/advanced way of using Song Magic, compared to regular singing, which is why RTs almost always use audible singing.

One example of this might be how Mir could create viruses from her strong feelings (basically the same thing as Song Magic) and the Tower, within the Binary Field, even while her body was frozen within the Crescent Chronicle. And the same might also apply to Frelia's maintaining Metafalss and it's Tower through her "song" (and Sol Marta's power), even while she was in Cold Sleep.

Exactly my thoughts, actually. This is what I believe as well, and it does make sense.

I guess it's good to hear that someone else has the same theory, independantly . For a while I also entertained the thought that Frelia might be some kind of walking battery for Symphonic Power ^^;

PS: One other random thing I read, is that the Chronicle Key Hymn reduces the singers lifespan to 30 years at most (here) . Misha would have had a very short life if the events in AT didn't happen

[Mystic]

I've got another question. How are hymns put into hymn crystals?

[Arkenses]

Okay, thanks! Sorry, I just like to make sure ^^;

One other random thing I read, is that the Chronicle Key Hymn reduces the singers lifespan to 30 years at most (here) . Misha would have had a very short life if the events in AT didn't happen

I'm fairly certain that it isn't the song itself but the strain from singing it continuously.

[aquagon]

I've got another question. How are hymns put into hymn crystals?

By a process of inverse-download. A Reyvateil first crafts the song, and then, she has the option of leaving it stored in her Cosmosphered, or storing it into an Hymn Crystal (assuming she has an empty one handy).

[Niyaya]

I was curious how much we know about the droids(?) Meimei, Child of Light, Reki and Raki...

I tried to find information in the Settei and some of the Toukousphere, but I haven't had much luck myself =(

[aquagon]

So far, the only information we have about them (which is in a part of the Settei Book for At2 that I haven't translated yet) is that all of them are different models, in this way:

Meimei - V1.0
Kanade - V1.5 Alpha
Mai - V1.5 Beta
Raki - V2.0P
Reki - V2.0

[wizzardx]

I'm fairly certain that it isn't the song itself but the strain from singing it continuously.

There were also older versions of Metafalica that were meant to be sung permanently, but there was no mention of the affect it would have on the singer's lifespan. Although it does speak for itself, that Freia was designed to be able to sing Metafalica without rest.

I've got another question. How are hymns put into hymn crystals?

By a process of inverse-download. A Reyvateil first crafts the song, and then, she has the option of leaving it stored in her Cosmosphered, or storing it into an Hymn Crystal (assuming she has an empty one handy).

I can't find a reference to this on the wikis. Is this from some untranslated source?

So far, the only information we have about them (which is in a part of the Settei Book for At2 that I haven't translated yet) is that all of them are different models, in this way:

Meimei - V1.0
Kanade - V1.5 Alpha
Mai - V1.5 Beta
Raki - V2.0P
Reki - V2.0

Thanks for that info Aquagon

By the way, that information you posted before about Infel Phira's various forms, is that also further on in the At2 Settei book?

Niyaya I think that the main other info we have on the androids, is from the games themselves, and from some background story details in the settei books. For instance, Rhaki's background has quite a few descriptions in the At2 history translation, eg:

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_2_translation/History_section#Rhaki_and_Jaza

And a few other sections (just search for Rhaki on that page for a few other details).

[aquagon]

I've got another question. How are hymns put into hymn crystals?

By a process of inverse-download. A Reyvateil first crafts the song, and then, she has the option of leaving it stored in her Cosmosphered, or storing it into an Hymn Crystal (assuming she has an empty one handy).

I can't find a reference to this on the wikis. Is this from some untranslated source?

That comes from the fact that various of the songs don't have an actual Hymn Crystal for them (such as Chronicle Key, Suspend, Sublimation, among others) and the information we got from the translation for the Infel Phira download spell, which can be used to download an Hymn Crystal into a Reyvateil, the feelings of a song from a Reyvateil to an Hymn Crystal, and the feelings of a song from a Reyvateil to other.

So far, the only information we have about them (which is in a part of the Settei Book for At2 that I haven't translated yet) is that all of them are different models, in this way:

Meimei - V1.0
Kanade - V1.5 Alpha
Mai - V1.5 Beta
Raki - V2.0P
Reki - V2.0

Thanks for that info Aquagon

By the way, that information you posted before about Infel Phira's various forms, is that also further on in the At2 Settei book?

Yes, it comes from the book, and there are also other forms in there that didn't appear in the game (described, but not pictured).

[exec_rainichan]

Ah Shuny, you made the perfect thread. I have a good list of questions already~

So I give you...

WEIRD, OUT OF PLACE AR TONELICO QUESTIONS! well, they're weird and out of place to me, at least.

Spoiler for "Question 1:":  [ Open ]

When Hibernation was sung, what would the effects have been in Sol Ciel, if any (reverse Suspend)? Would Shurelia have seen something Not Right going on in her tower since the song would have passed through the first tower? What about when Luca started to sing Hibernation, or any false starts for the song? Would they have been seen/heard/felt in the tower?

Spoiler for "Question 2:":  [ Open ]

Since Sublimation was a worldwide event, it would have effected Sol Ciel and Sol Cluster as well, correct?

Spoiler for "Question 3:":  [ Open ]

Do Reyvateils get sick? I imagine 3rd-generation would since they're born of humans and Reyvateils (from what I understand), but would it be conventional sickness, or some other virus? What about Beta-types and Origins?

Spoiler for "Question 4:":  [ Open ]

Would those in Sol Ciel and Sol Cluster know of the legends of Rhaplanca, or is that a Metafalss-only legend?

Spoiler for "Question 5:":  [ Open ]

What happens to the towers if the Origins are harmed? Example: Shurelia gets heavily electrocuted during battle, would that happen to the tower as well seeing as how she's connected to it?

Spoiler for "Question 6:":  [ Open ]

Along with the previous question, can Origins be killed? I know that as long as the towers exist, the Origins will live, but if they're stabbed through the heart or have some other normally fatal blow dealt to them, do they die? If they die, what would happen to the towers?

Spoiler for "Question 7:":  [ Open ]

If Origins can create Binary Field stories, could they recreate or mimic an actual Cosmosphere? If a vanguard or protector wanted to know more about the Origin Reyvateils, could they mimic or create a "mind guardian" (obviously not a real one) and a "cosmosphere" like other Reyvateils have? They can create characters and a game world, so would it be possible for that too?

[wizzardx]

That comes from the fact that various of the songs don't have an actual Hymn Crystal for them (such as Chronicle Key, Suspend, Sublimation, among others) and the information we got from the translation for the Infel Phira download spell, which can be used to download an Hymn Crystal into a Reyvateil, the feelings of a song from a Reyvateil to an Hymn Crystal, and the feelings of a song from a Reyvateil to other.

Thanks, interesting inferation

I though it was in the materials explicitely somewhere, thanks to your use of the term "inverse-download"

I presume there would be an "upload" spell of some form which could be used this way.

Although, as I understand it, it's not simply a case of creating a new hymn in your mind that lets it become an Extract (eg, something that might require a Hymn Code to download); it usually also needs to be programmed into the Tower/Song Server systems in some way in advance (usually during their design, but sometimes later), and then when the Hymn is sung, it orchestrates an already-existing program. Although I think there are some Hymns (eg: Phantasmagoria), which aren't explicitely pre-programmed this way (as far as we are aware), but which do still have some kind of effect on the Tower/Song Server systems.

Yes, it comes from the book, and there are also other forms in there that didn't appear in the game (described, but not pictured).

I'm looking forwards to reading more about those when you translate those sections at some point

:3 Ah Shuny, you made the perfect thread. I have a good list of questions already~

Welcome to the thread

And by the way, most of your questions aren't answered directly by the official materials (that I'm aware of), but I'll try to suggest a few theories regardless.

When Hibernation was sung, what would the effects have been in Sol Ciel, if any (reverse Suspend)?

Probably not immediately, since Sol Ciel isn't dependent on Metafalss. There might even have been a short-term benefit to Sol Ciel, if Sol Marta was no longer drawing power from Ar tonelico.

Would Shurelia have seen something Not Right going on in her tower since the song would have passed through the first tower?

Well, the canon material is a bit confusing on this point.

Based on various descriptions in the At2 timeline, it seems that Sol Marta was intended as an independant Song Server:

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_2_translation/History_section#Sol_Marta_Elevates_to_the_Skies_.283033.7E3040.29

And that it's main problem (why it acts like a relay), is because it wasn't completed and doesn't have a way of generating it's own Symphonic Power, so it relies on the first Tower for that:

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_2_translation/History_section#Sol_Marta_Elevates_to_the_Skies_.283033.7E3040.29

Given the above, it seems like Sol Marta executes songs directly, and just draws power (at some constant rate) from the first Tower.

But most other descriptions and tables seem to indicate that Sol Marta acts purely as a relay (with the possible exception of hosting Frelia's Binary Field), and that all the song magic (that doesn't get executed by Infel Phira), is directly executed by the First Tower.

Unfortunately, there isn't much in the way of "technical specs" on Sol Marta itself, that I'm aware of. But based on the various descriptions, I think that most likely Sol Marta is purely a relay (besides hosting Frelia's Binary Field), but it would have been a fully-fledged independant song server, if it had been completed.

But even given the above... As far as I am aware, Shurelia isn't aware of the details of the various Hymns or Songs being executed by her Tower. It probably (for her) takes place on an unconscious level. Otherwise, imagine how chaotic it would have been for her in the First Era, when the Tower's capabilities were used to their maximum capabilities (eg: during war with Sol Cluster), or if the Tower is executing the maximum possible number of songs (10 million).

There's also the fact that the Tower was heavily damaged during the Grathnode Inferia, and now relies on the Silver Horn, which complicates things a bit

What about when Luca started to sing Hibernation, or any false starts for the song? Would they have been seen/heard/felt in the tower?

Most likely not, for the reasons described above.

Since Sublimation was a worldwide event, it would have effected Sol Ciel and Sol Cluster as well, correct?

Correct, everyone on the planet (souls and bodies) would have been absorbed into Infel Phira at that point (and possibly also the planet Ar Ciel itself):

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Hymmno ... ANATION.2F.
http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Hymmno ... ublimation

Do Reyvateils get sick? I imagine 3rd-generation would since they're born of humans and Reyvateils (from what I understand), but would it be conventional sickness, or some other virus? What about Beta-types and Origins?

Most likely yes, since Reyvateils are biological and have very similar bodies to humans (remember, humans and RTs can have children together. Does pregnancy count as an infection? ), even if they're created artificially. Although I'd imagine that RTs might have some slightly different symptoms or illnesses to humans, given the unique structure of their bodies.

Beta-types might (theoretically) have a greater resistance to some illnesses, thanks to their D Cellophanes, which regulate their bodies growth.

Origins too, might be further resistant, thanks to their Tower/Song Server maintaining their bodies.

About viruses, I don't think that RTs are susceptible to those most of the time, thanks to their Boundary Gate and other security features. When it does happen, it's usually thanks some very advanced hacking, as seen in the games.

Would those in Sol Ciel and Sol Cluster know of the legends of Rhaplanca, or is that a Metafalss-only legend?

I know next to nothing about the legends myself, but judging by a few things I've found on various forums (eg this), it's probably a Metafalss-only legend. Although Sol Ciel might have learned of those legends when they obtained the Metafalss Note (as described in the At2 history on the wiki, here).

And by the way, I also found this download link for an interesting-sounding mp3

http://download555.mediafire.com/oz9zjh ... planca.mp3

(Thanks to Lazy for uploading this a while back on the old forum).

What happens to the towers if the Origins are harmed? Example: Shurelia gets heavily electrocuted during battle, would that happen to the tower as well seeing as how she's connected to it?

I think it depends on the Origin, and their relationship with their Tower/Song Server.

For Shurelia, probably no direct effect, given that several things happen to Shurelia in At1 without affecting the Tower. I think it's more of a one-way relationship for her (damage to the Tower makes her feel pain, as described in the At1 timeline, here). There's also the fact that the Tower has basically been been offline since the Grathnode Inferia, although it does still maintain many functions.

For Frelia, if she was hurt badly, it might interfere with her "Song", and cause damage to Metafalss and her Tower, given that she supports them directly with her power.

Along with the previous question, can Origins be killed? I know that as long as the towers exist, the Origins will live, but if they're stabbed through the heart or have some other normally fatal blow dealt to them, do they die? If they die, what would happen to the towers?

Yes, I'm pretty sure they can be killed. They may be immortal (as in never aging) thanks to their Towers, but they can be hurt, just like any other Reyvateil (eg: Shurelia being hurt in battle in At1). I think the Tower acts more like a Nuclear Triangular Loop which never runs out, unlike the one found in Betas.

And of course, there's also the "Linker" Hymn, that was created for the purpose of allowing another Reyvateil to replace the Origin:

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Hymmno ... KER.2F..29

As for the Towers:

- Shurelia's Tower might go inactive if she were killed, because it relies on her Binary Field for it's operation. And also, because an Origin is a required element for the first Tower to operate (as it's "brain", basically), according to the At1 history.

- Frelia's Tower would probably disappear, and also the Rim would plunge into the Sea of Death, if Frelia was killed.

If Origins can create Binary Field stories, could they recreate or mimic an actual Cosmosphere?

Well, they could probably simulate one, but it wouldn't be an actual reflection of their subconscious, that Vanguards could interact with to resolve her psychological issues and make her stronger spiritually.

If a vanguard or protector wanted to know more about the Origin Reyvateils, could they mimic or create a "mind guardian" (obviously not a real one) and a "cosmosphere" like other Reyvateils have?

I guess the Origin, or someone very familiar with the Origin's inner mind might be able to make some kind of simulation. But it wouldn't be actual diving into the Origin's subconcious, as you see with Third Gens and Betas.

They can create characters and a game world, so would it be possible for that too?

I think that's more of a pre-programmed script, like playing a video game or reading a book, rather than an actual adventure through the Origin's literal subconscious mind.

Although it might be possible one day to Dive Origins, if Dive Machine technology were advanced enough (or if their Binary Field was changed in some ways), given that it might be even be (theoretically) possible to Dive humans, who don't even have a Cosmosphere:

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Wave_T ... nto_Humans

But either case (diving humans, or diving Origins in the way you describe), would most likely require some major advances in Wave Theory, and it might even be found to be impossible at that stage.

[exec_rainichan]

Thanks for the theories. That's what I was mainly looking for. I'm sure I'll have more questions, but for now this will keep me content.

[wizzardx]

Thanks for the theories. That's what I was mainly looking for. I'm sure I'll have more questions, but for now this will keep me content.

Glad I could be of assistance. I enjoy making these theories, although they often end up being incorrect

[Kensou77]

speaking off the top of my head......that makes sense because i seem to remember Luca getting angry at some point because supposedly the Grand Bell knew that IPDs could be cured, but they had been suppressing that information for a long time.

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

I remember something like that, but I don't recall the exact part of the game (otherwise I could get a quote for it).

But, going from the At2 timeline alone, it looks like Grand Bell was mainly interested in increasing the IPD population (3319, 3320, 3494), and fully re-activating Infel Phira (3425), rather than shutting it down and clearing up the IPD data, which would have corrected the IPD outbreak problem (3394).

Even though Dive Therapy was banned in Pastalia (due to deaths and moral problems, 3270, 3271), the Grand Bell did actually later endorse Dive Therapy (3349), as a cure for IPD outbreaks, which (due to the Grand Bell's negligence) were getting worse due to increases in the IPD population.

Going by the timeline, I think the problem with the Grand Bell was 2-fold:

1) Dive Therapy became prohibited, due to moral problems

2) The Grand Bell was secretly increasing the population of IPDs, for the purpose of re-activating/powering up Infel Phira, despite all the problems that having more IPDs would have, including the IPD deaths (effectively), when Grand Bell changed their plans for Infel Phira back to Ascension (rather than as a weapon, or for one of the many attempts at Metafalica). Metafalss' history is pretty complicated ^^; (and I think this is also a cause of a great deal of confusion to people playing AT2 and trying to understand the backstory, without the story book)

Given the above timeline details, I think that it's fairly likely that the Grand Bell might be using Dive Therapy secretly in some cases, even though there would be public outcry (maybe something like 3217 on a smaller scale) if it was widely known.

I guess what we can tell from this and the other AT stories, is that many of the political groups in Ar Ciel's history (El Elemia, Grand Bell, Tenba, etc) have a lot of secrets and dirty history. They're doing what they think is best for their world's future, but there are always sacrifices and compromises demanded. Very few groups have clean hands. That's kind of depressing in a way, but it also makes the storyline a lot more interesting, than having groups that are purely good or evil. Just about everyone thinks they are serving some kind of higher purpose, rather than being totally self-serving.

In Chroche's Drama CD, you see her actually wanting to save someone with Diver's Therapy. Though that does make me wonder about early game when meeting with Luca..

[Little Snow]

-Hmag/s-
My guess is H wave magnitude / second

[Little Snow]

I want to ask some questions, it might be posted somewhere in the forum but i feel like to ask in here.
1. Why Teru tribe can posses magic ?
2. In related with above question, is it right that all magic in Al Ciel universe is originated from the tower ?
3. Is it right that when we sung Phantasmagoria (AT2), Ar Tonelico magic reflected from Sol Ciel to Sol Martha ?
4. What is the difference between EXEC_SONG, METHOD_SONG, EXEC_with.METHOD SONG, EXEC_over.METHOD_SONG, EXEC_HYMM_SONG and EXEC_FLIP_SONG ?
5. Is there any mass transportation service (via Airship for example) connected between towers ?
Mule, and Spica case. Then Sasya, Claude?, and Cocona case depicts if even a normal human can go to another tower. BUT strangely enough information from a tower to another is very limited and each respective tower inhabitants seem to have very limited knowledge about another tower existence. At least I can feel that when played AT 1.

[aquagon]

Almost alll the questions were answered in one or other of the translations I have made, but here are the answers:

1) It's unknown. We only know that their magic isn't related at all to the one employed by the Reyvateils or Tsukikanade.
2) Nope. The main form of magic consists in sounds being transformed into energy, but we don't know at all what is the source of the Teru magic.
3) Phantasmagoria and Ar tonelico both involve a beam shot from the Tower being reflected into a floating mirror antenna of sorts, so it can reach Metafalss despite the great length.
4) EXEC: Songs executed by Ar tonelico and any of its related systems.
METHOD: Songs executed by Infel Phira.
EXEC_with.METHOD: Songs executed by Ar tonelico and Infel Phira working in conjunction.
EXEC_over.METHOD_SONG: Songs executed in a way in which Infel Phira controls Ar tonelico.
EXEC_HYMME: Normal Song Magic (used in battle and for healing)
EXEC_FLIP: Opposite of the previous ones: HYMME songs manifest feelings into the true world, while FLIP songs turn the singer into feelings, allowing her to bring greater effects when they are sung, but potentially costing the Reyvateil her life. Can only be used by Gamma-Sublimated Reyvateils and Reyvateils with multiple personas.
5) There isn't any. The only airship that is known to go from a Tower to other is the one piloted by Krusche.

[Little Snow]

Almost alll the questions were answered in one or other of the translations I have made, but here are the answers:

1) It's unknown. We only know that their magic isn't related at all to the one employed by the Reyvateils or Tsukikanade.
2) Nope. The main form of magic consists in sounds being transformed into energy, but we don't know at all what is the source of the Teru magic.
3) Phantasmagoria and Ar tonelico both involve a beam shot from the Tower being reflected into a floating mirror antenna of sorts, so it can reach Metafalss despite the great length.
4) EXEC: Songs executed by Ar tonelico and any of its related systems.
METHOD: Songs executed by Infel Phira.
EXEC_with.METHOD: Songs executed by Ar tonelico and Infel Phira working in conjunction.
EXEC_over.METHOD_SONG: Songs executed in a way in which Infel Phira controls Ar tonelico.
EXEC_HYMME: Normal Song Magic (used in battle and for healing)
EXEC_FLIP: Opposite of the previous ones: HYMME songs manifest feelings into the true world, while FLIP songs turn the singer into feelings, allowing her to bring greater effects when they are sung, but potentially costing the Reyvateil her life. Can only be used by Gamma-Sublimated Reyvateils and Reyvateils with multiple personas.
5) There isn't any. The only airship that is known to go from a Tower to other is the one piloted by Krusche.

1,2. So, any possibility that a Teru magic can be stronger than a Reyvateil ?
Because IMO, a Teru who can control magic freely without being connected to a tower is supposed to be stronger.
5. Krusche did ? Any record on how Mule, Spica, Cocona, Claude?, and Sasya going to another tower ?

Thanks for the reply