Answering your AT canon-related questions (At1,2&3 spoilers)

[wizzardx]

Hi there

This topic is for people who have some quick questions about AT canon (things that can be found in the various translated At1, 2 & 3 references, like history, wave theory, in-game events, etc).

I'm not some kind of expert on Ar tonelico lore, but I do find that a lot of people have questions about random AT things, even though this forum, and extensive translated material exists, that already answer many of these questions.

So, the purpose of this topic, is so that if people have some quick questions, but don't want to start new discussion threads, they can ask them here, and then I (or other forum members) will attempt to give answers or inferences, and if needed, provide links to reference materials for further reading. Of course, for longer discussions or debates, you should still be starting new threads

And, of course an obligatory disclaimer: This topic is based on the canon version of game events (ie, what the translated books, and the games say in their reference sections). I (and hopefully other posters) will do our best to respect people's differing interpretations, but this topic is mainly for canon-related discussions. Please avoid this topic if you are easily offended.

But don't let the above disclaimer scare you. Feel free to fire away with any random questions you might have

Update: Warning: This topic contains At1, 2 & 3 spoilers. Please also avoid this topic if you haven't completed all the games. If you haven't played one of the games, but still have questions, then let me know and I'll start a new topic.

[wizzardx]

Well, it seems like it's actually me who has the first set of questions

Any theories or inferences are also welcome ^^;

1) Why did Misha's age change, when Chronicle Key was stolen, and then restored?

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

It's been a long time since I played At1, but here are a few facts I've managed to find on the wikis, or remember from the game:

- Chronicle Key is stored on a D Cellophane, rather than a Hymn Crystal
- Chronicle Key is Downloaded like a regular hymn during succession between Star Singers
- D Cellophanes regulate the growth of Betas and Origins (it's a required element), but can also contain data
- Lune's DNA was preserved over the centuries, to be able to clone new Star Singers to continue singing Chronicle Key in the Crescent Chronicle
- Misha was cloned using Lune's DNA data
- Beta cloning involves the use of a D Cellophane
- A beta cultivated from a D Cellophane with a recorded Hymn, can sing that Hymn from birth (if she were able to sing at that age).
- When Chronicle Key was stolen from Misha, she reverted to her age when she first Downloaded Chronicle Key (I think. Not sure on this exact detail).
- When Chronicle Key was restored, Misha's age returned to it's original age.

There are a few contradictions in the above (eg: Download of Chronicle Key during succession of Star Singers, vs D Cellophane enabling the cultivated Beta to sing the hymn right away).

I'm assuming for the moment, that some of those contradictions are a result of the canon for the AT series being revised between At1 & 2. So therefore, the version found in At2 should generally be considered authoritative when there are contradictions.

So, my theory so far, is something like this:

- Misha reverted to an earlier age when Chronicle Key was removed (ie, her D Cellophane), because there was some error triggered in her body, when her D Cellophane was roughly removed by Tenba's scientists, who didn't know the correct procedure. Her age then reverted (for some reason) to either the age when she first used Chronicle Key, or the age when she was old enough to start singing Hymns. Basically, some kind of weird regression.

- When Chronicle Key was restored (ie, Misha re-Installed her D Cellophane, and then re-downloaded the Hymn), her D Cellophane went back into action, and corrected her growth.

Does the above sound accurate, or are there corrections?

2) What is Infel Phira's power source?

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

Somehow, Infel Phira is able to keep generating the power needed to continue it's functions as a Song Server, and as a Heart of Gaea, without fail. So, where does it get this power from?

The concept seems similar to Heart of Gaea, which also aren't explained in great detail. What is the power source of a Heart of Gaea, that allows it to keep maintaining the environment of a continent or a planet? Do Hearts of Gaea simply exist, as a type of phenomenon, created by their parent structures? (eg: Ar Ciel's Heart of Gaea, maintained by Ar Cie's Sun's will/song).

And similarly, Sol Marta was originally planned to be able to generate it's own power, rather than relying on the First Tower. But how would it go about generating that power?

And similarly, the First Tower's power is pretty mysterious too. It seems that it's power is derived from the Orgel of Origins, which is still at it's base playing the Pure Melody. But other references (At1 help screens) seem to suggest that the first Tower also absorbs energy from the surrounding atmosphere.

My main theory at this point, is that certain very special constructs (such as the Orgel of Origins, or the Song Servers, or the Hearts of Gaea), are able to draw continuously on the will/song of their parent structure (Ar Ciel in this case), allowing them to function.

Any comments on the above?

3) Where does Frelia's power come from?

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

In the game, it's mentiond several times, that Frelia's power has been used too much, and any more power used, and the world will be destroyed (ie, the plates along the Rim will start to collapse into the Sea of Death). In other words, Frelia's power is being used continuously to keep the Rim afloat.

Now my question is, where does Frelia's power come from, or where is it stored? And how does it (or doesn't it) get recharged over time?

Some available information:

- Installation of Frelia's D Cellophane allows Reyvateils to access Frelia's conciousness, knowledge, and powers.
- When a Reyvateil uses Frelia's powers (via a Pact Spell), that Reyvateil either extracts resources from Frelia's Binary Field directly (connection lines), or has the effect of Frelia singing the song (activation lines).
- Frelia's Binary Field is stored in Sol Marta
- All of Sol Marta's power comes from the First Tower (the original plan was for Sol Marta to generate it's own power).
- The power output of the First Tower dropped significantly in the Grathnode Inferia (actually, the output of the First Tower was basically killed off at that point, until the Silver Horn was created).
- Recently, the output of the First Tower was reduced (Shurelia's Suspend), which forced Rhaki to reduce Sol Marta's output by 50%, for preservation purposes, but causing a large number of collapses.
- Frelia can feel major events within The Rim and within Sol Marta (which is probably similar to Shurelia's nerve connection to her Tower).

Given the above points, my basic theory is that Frelia's power store, is actually Sol Marta itself (or at least, an area within Sol Marta's Binary Field that's normally reserved for Frelia's use, ie her Binary Field). When Shun, Raki, and others talk about depleting of Frelia's power, they're talking about Sol Marta's power.

One interesting point, is that over time, Frelia's power actually gets lower and stays at that low level, rather than being automatically replenished from the First Tower. The implication is that Sol Marta does have some reserve energy, but besides that reserve, all of the energy being received from the First Tower is already being used for the task of keeping the Rim afloat. So, when Reyvateils use Frelia's power too much, they are actually depleting Sol Marta's last reserves, up to the point, where Sol Marta is barely able to power the Lift Generators that keep the Rim and other parts of Metafalss afloat.

I imagine that in the past, before the Grathnode Inferia, that the First Tower's output level was much higher, meaning that Sol Marta (and Frelia) had more than enough power for creating the Second Tower. But as soon as the GI occurred, Sol Marta's power reserves started being depleted rapidly, up until the Silver Horn was created at the First Tower. At which point, Sol Marta started receiving just barely enough power to keep the Lift Generators (and other parts of Metafalss, eg the Tower and Musical Corridoors) functioning, without further depeleting Sol Marta's reserves. At least until the Holy Maidens started using Frelia's D Cellophane.

Um, so how does the above theory sound? ^^;

4) How do "songs" work, that don't involve actual singing and sound?

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

Almost all Song Magic involves singing in Hymmnos, and this is described in some detail in the Wave Theory articles.

But, there is another type of "song" refered to in the Wave Theory translations (particularly the At2 wave theory), which doesn't seem to involve actual audible singing.

One example of this, would be Frelia's Song, that allows her Tower to continue existing, and she continued to "sing" for this Tower, even whens he was asleep.

Another example, is the "song", that allows structures like Metafalica, Viruses, Ar Ciel, the stars, and planets, the galaxies, and all living things, to continue to exist in the universe. And also, the "song" of hearts of Gaea.

In this case, I think that "song" is more of a metafore for "will", or "strong feelings", rather than an actual Hymn. It seems that in some cases, that strong enough feelings (for instance, the will and feelings of Ar Ciel the planet) can be conducted and have an effect on the environment, without an actual audible song. Usually Songs require audible voice as a type of carrier, but it seems like this is not always the case.

Any clarifications on the above?

5) How functional is Frelia's Tower?

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

The purpose of Towers of Ar tonelico is to act as powerful Song Magic amplfiiers. But Frelia's Tower was only ever 25% completed. And also, it had disappeared for a long time (enormous Song Magic that was no longer being manifested). As far as I can tell, the disappearance of the 2nd Tower, had no effect on the Metafalsians, besides making it hard for them to reach Sol Marta.

So it seems that the 2nd Tower is non-functional, and at the present date mainly serves as a useful way to access Sol Marta without using some kind of airship or rocket. And of course, it was invaluable for people escaping the GI, and reaching the Rim. And people also lived there for some time, and eventually created Pastalia around the Tower.

One interesting thing is that Pastalia itself didn't collapse when the Tower disappeared. Based on the game map screen, I think it's the case that the Tower is divided into 2 sections. One part is below Pastalia, and reaches far below, and also is a base for the Musical Coridoors below Metafalss. That part still existed after Raki made the Tower disappear. And the 2nd part is above Pastalia, and extends up to Sol Marta. That's the part that Raki caused to disappear.

Does the above sound reasonably accurate?

[Mystic]

I've got a question.

What happens to a reyvateil if she is somehow disconnected from the tower?

[Niyaya]

4) How do "songs" work, that don't involve actual singing and sound?

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

Almost all Song Magic involves singing in Hymmnos, and this is described in some detail in the Wave Theory articles.

But, there is another type of "song" refered to in the Wave Theory translations (particularly the At2 wave theory), which doesn't seem to involve actual audible singing.

One example of this, would be Frelia's Song, that allows her Tower to continue existing, and she continued to "sing" for this Tower, even whens he was asleep.

Another example, is the "song", that allows structures like Metafalica, Viruses, Ar Ciel, the stars, and planets, the galaxies, and all living things, to continue to exist in the universe. And also, the "song" of hearts of Gaea.

In this case, I think that "song" is more of a metafore for "will", or "strong feelings", rather than an actual Hymn. It seems that in some cases, that strong enough feelings (for instance, the will and feelings of Ar Ciel the planet) can be conducted and have an effect on the environment, without an actual audible song. Usually Songs require audible voice as a type of carrier, but it seems like this is not always the case.

Any clarifications on the above?

It seems as though this is closely related to a question I had about Song Magic.

A long time ago, shaman learned about the power the certain sounds had, correct? They weren't very powerful by themselves, but if an entire village got together and sung they could create an effect due to all of the people creating Dynamic Hymmno Waves.

Flash forward to today. A reyvateil is able to sing and create these same Dynamic H-Waves. These H-Waves not only flow outward from the reyvateil (as I'm understanding it), but also through her cosmosphere (which is why higher levels of the cosmosphere allow the creation of more powerful song magic -- the song is delivered more "purely" to the boundary gate), through the Binary Field, and to the Song Server. The Song Server processes the H-Waves and creates Dynamic D-Waves which are transmitted back to the reyvateil, converted into Static D-Waves, and, with them, an effect is created. ... I think.

So my question is, if this is the case, then the power of the song comes from the Song Server, and the Song Server gets it's power from the reyvateil's Dynamic H-Waves. But... I don't think a reyvateil needs to sing a song to produce these Dynamic H-Waves of a purity that would be able to instruct the tower, she would just need to have a pure mindset -- a "wish", if you were.

Is that correct?

I've got a question.

What happens to a reyvateil if she is somehow disconnected from the tower?

What do you mean "disconnected"? As in, moves a great distance away from the tower so that it's power is no longer able to reach her?

Oh, and an original question from me!

Spoiler for "Install Ports":  [ Open ]

So, after thinking about it for a bit, it seems as though Install Ports are always on a reyvateil's torso, and, even more specifically, along her center.
Aurica - Center of her back, just above (between?) her shoulder blades.
Misha - Center of her chest.
Shurelia - The small of her back (center of her lower back).
Mir - Center of her stomach.

So I thought and decided it makes sense for them to be on a reyvateil's torso. Even if there's not an actual device within her, it still is an interface between the "real" world (D-Waves) and soulspace (H-Waves) The connection with a reyvateil's heart makes is what made me think of this.

But the center theme is so common... I wondered... are there examples of canon reyvateils who have their Install Ports biased to one side or the other, or even completely on the side of her body?

Or, even further, are there are examples of canon reyvateils with an Install Port on a limb?

Thanks for the topic Wizzardx!

[Mystic]

I've got a question.

What happens to a reyvateil if she is somehow disconnected from the tower?

What do you mean "disconnected"? As in, moves a great distance away from the tower so that it's power is no longer able to reach her?

I meant disconnected as in no longer connected, cut-off completely.

[Niyaya]

I've got a question.

What happens to a reyvateil if she is somehow disconnected from the tower?

What do you mean "disconnected"? As in, moves a great distance away from the tower so that it's power is no longer able to reach her?

I meant disconnected as in no longer connected, cut-off completely.

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

Unless she moved a great distance away, or the tower was shut off (like after EXEC_SUSPEND), it's not possible to become "disconnected". The tower is always generating power, which allows reyvateils to sing.

In fact, 3rd Gen reyvateils aren't even registered with the tower. They just happen to have the ability to use song magic. Only Origins and Betas are registered (via their Hymncodes)

They wouldn't be able to use song magic any longer, but would otherwise suffer no ill effects, as we saw at the end of Phase 2 of AT1.

Third Gens would actually benefit, since they'd be able to stop having Diquility installed every three months.

[Michi Mii]

I've got a question.

What happens to a reyvateil if she is somehow disconnected from the tower?

What do you mean "disconnected"? As in, moves a great distance away from the tower so that it's power is no longer able to reach her?

I meant disconnected as in no longer connected, cut-off completely.

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

Unless she moved a great distance away, or the tower was shut off (like after EXEC_SUSPEND), it's not possible to become "disconnected". The tower is always generating power, which allows reyvateils to sing.

In fact, 3rd Gen reyvateils aren't even registered with the tower. They just happen to have the ability to use song magic. Only Origins and Betas are registered (via their Hymncodes)

They wouldn't be able to use song magic any longer, but would otherwise suffer no ill effects, as we saw at the end of Phase 2 of AT1.

Third Gens would actually benefit, since they'd be able to stop having Diquility installed every three months.

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

I think there would be a difference between a complete Disconnection vs the effects of Suspend.

[Niyaya]

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

I think there would be a difference between a complete Disconnection vs the effects of Suspend.

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

That may be the case, but, as far as I'm aware, there's no way to disconnect from the tower. So that part has to be answered first... How would a reyvateil become disconnected from the tower?

[Michi Mii]

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

I think there would be a difference between a complete Disconnection vs the effects of Suspend.

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

That may be the case, but, as far as I'm aware, there's no way to disconnect from the tower. So that part has to be answered first... How would a reyvateil become disconnected from the tower?

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

I think the "How" is hypothetical. The question isn't "Can a Reyvateil disconnect from the Tower?" it's "What would happen if it did" In my opinion, the example of Suspend is a poor one, since the effects of Suspend did not shut down the tower, it merely put it in "Stand By Mode" as far as I know. A better example may be in AT2, while not the Tower, the Song Hibernation, deleted the IPDs Cosmospheres, causing all of them to collapse.

[bura]

i like the idea of this topic.

besides, sometimes i just can't find the answer to a question even after searching on google or text-searching through translations.

my question:

Spoiler for Hmag/s:  [ Open ]

about the unit "Hmag/s".....apparently it's some kind of rate unit, since it's "per-second", but a rate of what? energy? what is "Hmag" an abbreviation for, or, what is it supposed to mean? and then i've seen the "SHmag/s" unit also. it appears SHmag is a greater order of magnitude than Hmag, but how much greater? i've searched but haven't found any clarification anywhere.

as for questions others have asked, sorry, i have no solid info to offer....just speculation. ^^;;

[Arkenses]

How do Reyvateil genetics work? Specifically, the chance of offspring becoming Reyvateils. Is it as simple as one of the parents having the Reyvateil gene and the child being female? Does the same thing apply to IPDs? Expanding on that part, are Reyvateils born as IPDs, just without the negative symptoms of IPD or do they specifically have to have an outbreak? Does the negative form of IPD infect other Reyvateils or simply 'awaken' other IPD Reyvateils?

[wizzardx]

So many questions in this topic since my last post .

It seems that this topic is more popular than I expected ^^;

I will attempt to answer these or suggest some theories in the meanwhile, but my knowledge on AT canon isn't that great. Hopefully Aquagon or one of the other gurus will drop by this topic sometime

What happens to a reyvateil if she is somehow disconnected from the tower?

Well, there aren't many recorded cases of this, besides Suspend. I've been reading up on related information (the relationship between the Cosmosphere and the Tower), and it seems like a few details in the AT canon have changed between At1 & At2. This is something which Aquagon has referred to a few times

In At1's canon, most Reyvateils (besides Origins) seem to have a Cosmosphere that is mainly stored in their bodies, but their lowest levels (True Nature World) is very closely related to an unconscious shared area (for all Reyvateils), found within the Tower:

From here:

The Reyvateils receive energy from the Tower, which they afterwards use to manifest their Song Magic in the real world. Because of that, they are connected by something similar to an invisible umbilical cord to the Tower. In the space between that Symphonic Power (magical power) transmission line and the Reyvateil there is this: the [Boundary Gate], and while its external part is the True Nature region of the Cosmosphere, the inside is a shared area inside of the Tower. As the region where the individual is defined, there are various differences between the True Nature area of the Origins, Pureblooded Beta-types and Third Generations, which also explain why the suspension of the Tower affects them differently. Because the Third Generations have a completely organic body and a normal brain, they don't receive any influence from the suspension, while the Origins are one with the Tower, and they suspend as well if the Tower is suspended. That is because their brains are 100% in the Tower's memory, and if the Tower's power is suddenly cut, the memory becomes inaccessible. Again, the Boundary Gate is like defense mechanism to prevent the consciousnesses of the Reyvateil from breaking the privacy of each other, and to be able to keep free the human part of the Reyvateil from the Tower's administration, because the individuality of the Reyvateils wouldn't be able to form if it wasn't by this special barrier.

The True Self it's not aware of this, because this area is very far away from its feelings and thoughts. This Memory Bus is the concentration server where the thoughts of all the Reyvateils are gathered, and it's their source of power, as well. It's possible to enter here from the Soulspace, but actually, it isn't possible to hack Ar tonelico from here. Of course, because of her unmatched knowledge and technical skills, Mir was able to accomplish a feat that was thought to be completely impossible.

In At2's canon, all Reyvateil's Cosmospheres seem to be stored entirely within Towers/Song Servers:

From here:

And the memories and minds of the Reyvateils are preserved in Ar tonelico through a shape called the Cosmosphere, in which their Individual Consciousnesses are located in the frequency bands up to 1.16x10^8Hz, while any frequency band higher this is where their Common Consciousnesses are located.

There is a lot of other supporting information in the wikis and various other places, but the above seems to sum it up fairly well. And also, I'd say that the At2 canon supercedes the At1 canon, where the two are in disagreement, because the At2 version is the latest. There are likely to be further canon changes in At3.

Semi-related, here's an explanation for what the Suspend hymn does, from here:

This, together with Linker and Re=Nation, was one of the 3 Hymmnos crafted during the time when the first tower was being built. Its function is shutting down the Tower, thus rendering all Song Magic useless and taking the Administrator with it. However, even if the Tower is shut down, all its vital facilities such as the Musical Corridor and the Plasma Bell remain active, as they were created after the Tower's completion. The Administrator then enters a suspended animation sleep until the Tower is restarted.

I'd like to quote more sections of the wiki, but I don't want to take too long on this reply

But you might also find this Toukousphere article interesting. It explains what would happen to Cocona if she left Infel Phira's range. Summary: Her Reyvateil abilities would become dormant, and she would no longer require Diquility installations, at least according to Jacqli (which is somewhat in disagreement with something that Infel posted here).

So I guess, what happens to a Reyvateil (particularly 3rd gens), depends on exactly how they are disconnected. If their Reyvateil abilities become dormant, then they'd become like a regular human (if that's possible for them). But if they are cut off by having their data corrupted/damaged/deleted in their Song Server, then they're in trouble.

It seems as though this is closely related to a question I had about Song Magic.

Indeed . It's something I've wondered about before, but your asking about it reminded me of that connundrum.

A long time ago, shaman learned about the power the certain sounds had, correct? They weren't very powerful by themselves, but if an entire village got together and sung they could create an effect due to all of the people creating Dynamic Hymmno Waves.

Indeed. Check these references:

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_translations/History_section#Tsukikanade_.28Moon_Chanters.29
http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Wave_T ... tural_Laws

Although they didn't use terms like Dynamic Hymmno Waves back then, because Wave Theory wasn't discovered yet.

Flash forward to today. A reyvateil is able to sing and create these same Dynamic H-Waves.

To clarify, when a person (Human or Reyvateil) sings, they are emitting two types of wave:

1) Ordinary sounds between 50 Hz and 2000 Hz.

2) Dynamic H waves, which carry feelings, and are able to affect the environment within the range of their voice, even without a Tower:

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_2_translation/Wave_Theory_section#The_Existence_Called_the_.22Voice.22

These H-Waves not only flow outward from the reyvateil (as I'm understanding it), but also through her cosmosphere (which is why higher levels of the cosmosphere allow the creation of more powerful song magic
-- the song is delivered more "purely" to the boundary gate), through the Binary Field, and to the Song Server. The Song Server processes the H-Waves and creates Dynamic D-Waves which are transmitted back to the reyvateil, converted into Static D-Waves, and, with them, an effect is created. ... I think.

Well, you dont sound too sure, so you should read these sections, they clarify the points you are discussing:

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Wave_T ... e_Tower.29
http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Wave_T ... on_Methods
http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Wave_T ... _to_Diving
http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Wave_Theory#Song_Magic

Although there are some minor differences to the At2 canon.

So my question is, if this is the case, then the power of the song comes from the Song Server, and the Song Server gets it's power from the reyvateil's Dynamic H-Waves. But... I don't think a reyvateil needs to sing a song to produce these Dynamic H-Waves of a purity that would be able to instruct the tower, she would just need to have a pure mindset -- a "wish", if you were.

Is that correct?

I think that's almost right.

But the critical point I think, is that Dynamic H waves (waves of feeling) are as far as I can tell, only emitted during actual singing (particularly Hymmnos):

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_2_translation/Wave_Theory_section#The_Existence_Called_the_.22Voice.22

But the Tower of Life connection, acts as a type of conduit, so that the waves of feeling can be sent directly into the Tower without being dispersed in the atmosphere, like sound waves normally are.

So I thought and decided it makes sense for them to be on a reyvateil's torso. Even if there's not an actual device within her, it still is an interface between the "real" world (D-Waves) and soulspace (H-Waves) The connection with a reyvateil's heart makes is what made me think of this.

Well, it does provide direct access to "the Grathnode component of their bodies (the source of their emotions)":

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Reyvat ... aller_Port

Or, even further, are there are examples of canon reyvateils with an Install Port on a limb?

Sonnet, from the Arpeggio manga, who has her install port on the back of her hand. I think she counts as reasonably canon

Also, going by a commment that Kensou made, the installer port location is pretty much random, according to Luca's drama CD:

http://m0hr.com/mirror/weezy.freeforums ... html#34950

Unless she moved a great distance away, or the tower was shut off (like after EXEC_SUSPEND), it's not possible to become "disconnected". The tower is always generating power, which allows reyvateils to sing.

Another case of the Tower not functioning correctly, was after the Grathnode Inferia, up until the Silver Horn was created:

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_translations/History_section#The_World_After_the_Catastrophe

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_translations/World_section#Silver_Horn

That may be the case, but, as far as I'm aware, there's no way to disconnect from the tower. So that part has to be answered first... How would a reyvateil become disconnected from the tower?

One possible example of this might be the transcribing of Reyvateils onto Infel Phira. Before that point in time, all Reyvateils were connected to Sol Ciel's tower. See 3291 in the At2 timeline:

wiki/index.php/Cross-referenced_Ar_tonelico_timelines#Second_Era

about the unit "Hmag/s".....apparently it's some kind of rate unit, since it's "per-second", but a rate of what? energy? what is "Hmag" an abbreviation for, or, what is it supposed to mean? and then i've seen the "SHmag/s" unit also. it appears SHmag is a greater order of magnitude than Hmag, but how much greater? i've searched but haven't found any clarification anywhere.

I don't have solid information on this myself, but here's my available information:

From Luca's dialogue when she uses Dive Therapy for the first time on an IPD:

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

Luca: I'm creating a blocking range at default area, 0x07233d. Starting the Initial Grathnode wave packet at 5900Hmag/s, from 9000Hz.

Dive Shop Lelen: No way! Are you serious? That girl's gonna break!

Luca: At C-range scale, raise the wave packet by 150Hmag/s every time she ranks down.

Luca: If a critical down occurs, corrospond with a D-Wave shock.

Dive Shop Lelen: Okay...

From the help boxes when healing IPDs:

- Decrease Wave Packet Flow: Stabilize the flow of wave packets and halve the effect on the mind.

(100Hmag/s Increase)

- Liquid Grathnode: Administer liquid Grathnode and double the effect onto the mind.

(100mg Injection)

From the At2 Terminology Screen:

Grathnode Waves:

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

In the strict sense, this refers to a wave energy unit of the conductor D-wave. The larger this value, the more influence it can have over the human body. When a well adjusted conductor D-wave (Grathnode Wave Packet) is concentrated into one point, this is Song Magic. In a Dive Shop, the Grathnode Waves are an important factor in deciding how much influcence you want to give. The higher level the Dive, the more often it may require high density Grathnode Waves. In Dive Therapy, the greater the wave packets, the more influence it has. In an extreme situation, if adjusted well, it is possible to mind control the person. However, this is taboo, and in the Dive Therapy industry, there is an upper limit to usable Grathnode Waves.

D-wave shock:

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

The most drastic and last choice in a treatment of I.P.D. through Dive Therapy. D-waves are sent in for a moment at 200x the normal strength to cause a shock state. Doing this will paralyse the patient's mind and puts them in a temoprary state of death. During this time, no changes can occur in the mind, so it is used to point out the infectant, or find a permanent preventative measure. The D-wave Shock method is also used when the Therapist runs into a near-death situation while treating the I.P.D. However, performing this on a Reyvateil with a weakened mind can blow out their Cosmosphere, and will never awaken again.

From the above, I think we can infer that Hmag/s is a rate of Grathnode Wave Packet flow (conductor D-wave/Dynamic D wave), in some unit that is used to measure the rate of flow. I'm not sure what Hmag stands for. Probably something like H magnitude (not sure what H is, since afaict, this unit deals with D waves rather than H waves)

About SHmag/s, you probably saw that here:

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Hymmno ... e_emission

SHmag/s in this case, is probably the rate of Symphonic Power flow from the Tower during the execution of the Hymn (S might be short for Symphonic, or it might just mean something much higher, because of the magnitude of difference from the amounts used in Dive Therapy). The exact definition isn't given, but you can see the relative power levels of each of the Hymns and get some kind of basic idea.

How do Reyvateil genetics work? Specifically, the chance of offspring becoming Reyvateils.
Is it as simple as one of the parents having the Reyvateil gene and the child being female?

Nope, apparently most of the time the children aren't Reyvateils, it's only very rare that the daughter will become a Third-gen Reyvateil:

wiki/index.php/Settei_book_translations/Encyclopedia_section#Third_Generations

Does the same thing apply to IPDs?

Most likely, since they are the same as other Reyvateils, up until the moment that they are born, at which point they get assigned to Infel Phira:

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Reyvateil#IPD

Expanding on that part, are Reyvateils born as IPDs, just without the negative symptoms of IPD or do they specifically have to have an outbreak? Does the negative form of IPD infect other Reyvateils or simply 'awaken' other IPD Reyvateils?

I think they specifically have to have an outbreak (negative or positive). You can read more here:

http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Reyvateil#IPD_Disease

Also, it is possible for IPDs to be immunized against having outbreaks. From the start of At2 (transcribed here):

Reyvateil: I can't completely heal it, but... Does it feel any better?
Croix: ...Yeah, thanks...
Croix: Hey... You're a Reyvateil, right?
Croix: Aren't you afraid of the I.P.D. infection?
Reyvateil: ...Huh?
Reyvateil: Don't you know? I've been immunized against I.P.D.

[aquagon]

Actually, the IPDs don't need to have any sort of outbreak. That's only dependant on if they had an IPD in some part of their familiar history, given that to be an IPD, a Reyvateil has to have an specific rewritten Spectrum Gene that is only inherited from mothers to childrens, and the outbreaks don't have anything to do with that.

Also, that line at the start of the game was mistranslated:

Spoiler:  [ Open ]

Reyvateil(117) :24:24:
JP::何言ってるんですか。<LINE>
私はもう、Ｉ．Ｐ．Ｄ．には感染しませんよ。
EN::Ｄｏｎ’ｔ　ｙｏｕ　ｋｎｏｗ？　Ｉ’ｖｅ　ｂｅｅｎ　ｉｍｍｕｎｉｚｅｄ　ａｇａｉｎｓｔ　Ｉ．Ｐ．Ｄ．
NEW:Ｗｈａｔ　ａｒｅ　ｙｏｕ　ｓａｙｉｎｇ？　Ｉ　ｃａｎ’ｔ　ｇｅｔ　ｉｎｆｅｃｔｅｄ　ｗｉｔｈ　ＩＰＤ　ａｎｙｍｏｒｅ．

[wizzardx]

Thanks for that update, Aquagon

I think I may have misunderstood Arkenses' question. I thought he was asking about whether an IPD can be born with the IPD disease, as opposed to needing to be infected with it later to have an outbreak.

Sometimes I get confused by different uses of the word "IPD" ^^;

And with that re-translation fix, does that mean that the Reyvateil most likely had her own IPD outbreak in the past, and is now (basically) immune, unless she has a relapse later? Although that seems to imply that someone cured her with Dive Therapy at some point, which was forbidden by the Grand Bell. Or maybe her own outbreak (perhaps negative?) ended by itself?

[aquagon]

Or maybe she is simply an Standard Reyvateil, which already makes impossible for her to contract the disease.

[wizzardx]

Or maybe she is simply an Standard Reyvateil, which already makes impossible for her to contract the disease.

The problem is that she says this:

"What are you saying? I can't get infected with IPD anymore"

The "anymore" part means she could have been infected with the disease in the past, but something happened that is currently preventing it.

My current theory is that she did have some kind of outbreak in the past, and she might relapse later if she has some really strong feelings about something. But that she's safe from being re-infected and having a surprise outbreak (in theory).

Although that theory is also kind of weird, because normally the IPDs are kept away from the rest of society, even after they've had their first outbreak, probably because they're still a major threat (or maybe I'm confusing the regular IPDs living in the slums, as opposed to the IPDs who have had outbreaks, being permanently contained in the IPD labs).

So maybe the Grand Bell does have some kind of immunization program, or she was treated secretly with some kind of Dive Therapy reserved for Grand Bell support IPDs ^^;

[bura]

or she was treated secretly with some kind of Dive Therapy reserved for Grand Bell support IPDs ^^;

speaking off the top of my head......that makes sense because i seem to remember Luca getting angry at some point because supposedly the Grand Bell knew that IPDs could be cured, but they had been suppressing that information for a long time.

edit: oops, forgot to say thanks, wizzard, for that response on Hmag/s. i guess they did leave enough dots behind for the players to connect. i was just hoping it was spelled out explicitly somewhere (since at work IRL, i'm used to being able to look up stuff i don't know in documentation of some sort, heh)

[kairi_key]

I think that even after the immunization, they can still have relapse more if the negative symptom is near.

But you might also find this Toukousphere article interesting. It explains what would happen to Cocona if she left Infel Phira's range. Summary: Her Reyvateil abilities would become dormant, and she would no longer require Diquility installations, at least according to Jacqli (which is somewhat in disagreement with something that Infel posted here).

So I guess, what happens to a Reyvateil (particularly 3rd gens), depends on exactly how they are disconnected. If their Reyvateil abilities become dormant, then they'd become like a regular human (if that's possible for them). But if they are cut off by having their data corrupted/damaged/deleted in their Song Server, then they're in trouble.

Well, after reading this, I think Jakuri's info is better. Infel said it herself that it was just unproved theory.
But if Jakuri's info is true, then Cocona singing in Sol Cluster would be impossible.

[wizzardx]

speaking off the top of my head......that makes sense because i seem to remember Luca getting angry at some point because supposedly the Grand Bell knew that IPDs could be cured, but they had been suppressing that information for a long time.

I remember something like that, but I don't recall the exact part of the game (otherwise I could get a quote for it).

But, going from the At2 timeline alone, it looks like Grand Bell was mainly interested in increasing the IPD population (3319, 3320, 3494), and fully re-activating Infel Phira (3425), rather than shutting it down and clearing up the IPD data, which would have corrected the IPD outbreak problem (3394).

Even though Dive Therapy was banned in Pastalia (due to deaths and moral problems, 3270, 3271), the Grand Bell did actually later endorse Dive Therapy (3349), as a cure for IPD outbreaks, which (due to the Grand Bell's negligence) were getting worse due to increases in the IPD population.

Going by the timeline, I think the problem with the Grand Bell was 2-fold:

1) Dive Therapy became prohibited, due to moral problems

2) The Grand Bell was secretly increasing the population of IPDs, for the purpose of re-activating/powering up Infel Phira, despite all the problems that having more IPDs would have, including the IPD deaths (effectively), when Grand Bell changed their plans for Infel Phira back to Ascension (rather than as a weapon, or for one of the many attempts at Metafalica). Metafalss' history is pretty complicated ^^; (and I think this is also a cause of a great deal of confusion to people playing AT2 and trying to understand the backstory, without the story book)

Given the above timeline details, I think that it's fairly likely that the Grand Bell might be using Dive Therapy secretly in some cases, even though there would be public outcry (maybe something like 3217 on a smaller scale) if it was widely known.

I guess what we can tell from this and the other AT stories, is that many of the political groups in Ar Ciel's history (El Elemia, Grand Bell, Tenba, etc) have a lot of secrets and dirty history. They're doing what they think is best for their world's future, but there are always sacrifices and compromises demanded. Very few groups have clean hands. That's kind of depressing in a way, but it also makes the storyline a lot more interesting, than having groups that are purely good or evil. Just about everyone thinks they are serving some kind of higher purpose, rather than being totally self-serving.

edit: oops, forgot to say thanks, wizzard, for that response on Hmag/s. i guess they did leave enough dots behind for the players to connect. i was just hoping it was spelled out explicitly somewhere (since at work IRL, i'm used to being able to look up stuff i don't know in documentation of some sort, heh)

Probably there is a lot more information available out there (eg: on a Japanese Ar tonelico wiki), but it hasn't been translated into English yet. It's mainly thanks to our hard-working translaters that we have the information that we do, outside of the games themselves.

I think that even after the immunization, they can still have relapse more if the negative symptom is near.

Quite likely, since Infel Phira was still damaged at that point, and some major instabilization of their CS could (probably) easily trigger another problem. Especially as on the IPD CS lower levels, feelings can flow from Infel Phira, and other IPDs.

Fortunately, Infel Phira's damaged data was repaired later

PS: Random note from the timeline: Croix and the other knights use lances, because of a war with engineers from Elemia (3435, 3438)

Well, after reading this, I think Jakuri's info is better. Infel said it herself that it was just unproved theory.
But if Jakuri's info is true, then Cocona singing in Sol Cluster would be impossible.

Not necessarily. If Gust wants Cocona to use Song Magic, then they will find some excuse . It's not an intractable problem. They can and do rewrite AT canon when they need to

But even with the current canon, the most likely thing would be that Sol Cluster is within Infel Phira's range (even if it is a pretty small distance). Or perhaps Infel Phira will be boosted or relayed in some way to Sol Cluster during At3. I'm sure that Jakuri would have thought about this before sending Cocona off (especially considering Jakuri's reasons for approaching Cocona).

[Niyaya]

So... my (silly) AT canon question this time is...

Spoiler for "At1":  [ Open ]

Did we ever find out why Lyner forgot about Misha?

Spoiler for "This thread and spoilers...inside a spoiler tag":  [ Open ]

Also... Just as an aside... Maybe the thread title should just be marked as "spoilers" for At1 & 2? I'm always hesitant to put too much outside of spoiler boxes here just in case, but it seems as though these questions often delve deep into the games and necessitate including spoilers at one point or another.

Still, I don't want to just decide this for myself ^^;