Philosophical issues raised by GUST games

[wizzardx]

One thing I've noticed about GUST games (or perhaps JRPGs in general), is that they like to push certain boundaries to make the story more interesting.

For instance, in many of the Atelier Iris games, and in the Ar tonelico series, the stories have elements like this, which I find pretty interesting:

- Artificial humans (and how they relate to regular humans).
- Transformation of humans into other forms
- Mind and soul living on outside the body
- Self-aware Artificial Intelligence
- Star trek-like things, like transformation between data/energy, and matter
- Matrix-like things, like virtual worlds where the human mind can enter and be killed in

And various other things.

Some of the ideas presented in GUST games are somewhat Ghost In the Shell-like, and the implications are interesting to think about.

What do you think about ideas like the above, and how GUST uses them in their games?

[Dexas]

I like it~nya. It makes for a deeper story than it already is.

[MysticHrist]

I agree, such things really make the game interesting.

But, for things such as "Muppy", i believe they are drunk while designing the characters for MK1 >____>

The homuculus concept does work though, like in FMA.

[Thunder]

Actually they really were drunk when they came up with Jack's design in AT1 iirc.

[Sheryl Nome]

Page 44:

Director's Comments about Jack:

凪良さんとの打ち合わせの際に喫茶店で生まれたキャラクタ
ーで、顔の中ではもうできあがっていたようです。すぐにデサ
インが送られてきて、名前や設定よりも先に決まりました。

He is a character that was created during a business meeting I had with Nagi-san in a coffee shop, in which we sketched the basic premise while we were drunk out. After that, we went on designing and redesigning him, but we gave him the name we had decided from the start.

[MysticHrist]

Page 44:

Director's Comments about Jack:

凪良さんとの打ち合わせの際に喫茶店で生まれたキャラクタ
ーで、顔の中ではもうできあがっていたようです。すぐにデサ
インが送られてきて、名前や設定よりも先に決まりました。

He is a character that was created during a business meeting I had with Nagi-san in a coffee shop, in which we sketched the basic premise while we were drunk out. After that, we went on designing and redesigning him, but we gave him the name we had decided from the start.

I loled. Whatever =P

[Advarielle]

Its incredible, the hidden potential of human's mind can be unleashed with a lot of ways ^^;

[waterlily]

i enjoyed lita's storyline a lot. it was unexpected and very emotional for me to experience with her. i've always found articial lifeforms to be fascinating, and it won't be long until they become an integrated part of our society.

[Advarielle]

Philosophical issues integrated into a game storyline is definitely a very good idea because it will make the impact of the story to the player deeper as the philosophical issues can happen indirectly or directly in the real life and question the player about their own life and society. If the said the philosophical issues are used as a part of character development, it will definitely left an impact to the player, especially if the said character's issues happen to the player or someone close to the player. It make both the story and the character more complex, interesting, and memorable to the player. Your most favourite character definitely has a fair share of your own issues, right? So, if anyone say that game storyline is cheap, not as complex as novel, and too absurd or imaginative in the real life context, well think again.

[SleepingTiger]

Keep in mind that Europe was heavily influenced by music and the sciences back in the day. In fact, most philosophers and alchemists came from around that general area. And seeing as how the Atelier series is heavily European-influenced, it comes to no surprise that they would incorporate some of its history too.

[Nash]

Page 44:

Director's Comments about Jack:

凪良さんとの打ち合わせの際に喫茶店で生まれたキャラクタ
ーで、顔の中ではもうできあがっていたようです。すぐにデサ
インが送られてきて、名前や設定よりも先に決まりました。

He is a character that was created during a business meeting I had with Nagi-san in a coffee shop, in which we sketched the basic premise while we were drunk out. After that, we went on designing and redesigning him, but we gave him the name we had decided from the start.

I loled. Whatever =P

Reminds me of the good old days when I'd just sleep whenever I ended with an unsolvable problem, and later wake up with the solution fresh in my mind... >_>

But still the product of their drunk minds is still awesome. Jack <3 <3 <3

[wizzardx]

Been a while since I posted here.

I like it~nya. It makes for a deeper story than it already is.

I like it too, a great deal. I like a story which makes me think like that. Deeper questions like "what is the nature of reality and consciousness" are really interesting, and it's nice to see how these things play out in a story. Although GUST don't explore the implications very far (like GITS does, for instance), the fact that they have these things at all is nice.

I agree, such things really make the game interesting.

But, for things such as "Muppy", i believe they are drunk while designing the characters for MK1 >____>

The homuculus concept does work though, like in FMA.

I haven't played Mk1 yet. But yes, crazy humor is also a staple of Japanese entertainment. I like that a lot, too XD.

Also, I agree wrt the homuculus/artificial human concept. Although GUST didn't explore it very much (they go further in the Settei books), they do make very endearing "artificial human" characters, who the player likes more than most of the human characters in the games.

There are some parallels to FMA (alchemy, creating humans, etc), but FMA is a lot more dark and creepy in places. There are some artificial humans in GUSTs games which do bad things, but that's usually due to circumstances beyond their control. Most of them aren't actively evil ^^.

i enjoyed lita's storyline a lot. it was unexpected and very emotional for me to experience with her. i've always found articial lifeforms to be fascinating, and it won't be long until they become an integrated part of our society.

I liked Lita's story too. It was one of my favourite parts of AI1. The process of restoring her became even more important than the rest of the game ^^. Nice how she got stronger abilities afterwards, too.

Unfortunately though, I don't think we'll see artificial lifeforms any time soon, except in entertainment. AI is a very hard problem, and self-aware AI even more-so. Assuming that one day we are able to make self-aware machines, that will cause *massive* social upheaval I think. It would probably take a long time for them to become integrated into society.

Philosophical issues integrated into a game storyline is definitely a very good idea because it will make the impact of the story to the player deeper as the philosophical issues can happen indirectly or directly in the real life and question the player about their own life and society. If the said the philosophical issues are used as a part of character development, it will definitely left an impact to the player, especially if the said character's issues happen to the player or someone close to the player. It make both the story and the character more complex, interesting, and memorable to the player. Your most favourite character definitely has a fair share of your own issues, right? So, if anyone say that game storyline is cheap, not as complex as novel, and too absurd or imaginative in the real life context, well think again.

Insightful comments ^^. You've already said it pretty well so I don't have much to add XD. But yes, as you say, these issues do make the characters a lot deeper, and help players to identify with them. In the case of artificial lifeforms, people irl are not literally that way, but they do feel the same kind of isolation and being different from people around them, for instance.

Often the characters I find interesting were human once and were changed to something else later. Gray (the dragon-like warrior from AI2) was one of my favourite characters from that game, and later Shun, from AT2. The things people experience when being changed to another form, how they live, their acceptance of their new state, and their wish to go back to their original life, is rather interesting.

Keep in mind that Europe was heavily influenced by music and the sciences back in the day. In fact, most philosophers and alchemists came from around that general area. And seeing as how the Atelier series is heavily European-influenced, it comes to no surprise that they would incorporate some of its history too.

How much of European history does the Atelier series have? Afaict, it's entirely fantasy. It (and a lot of RPGs) do have a lot of European elements (kind of like D&D and Tolkien's works), but it has a more personal, light-hearted story which focuses on the alchemists and how they help people (which later changes to saving the world), which is a nice change from what you see in many western adventure games.

[SleepingTiger]

How much of European history does the Atelier series have? Afaict, it's entirely fantasy. It (and a lot of RPGs) do have a lot of European elements (kind of like D&D and Tolkien's works), but it has a more personal, light-hearted story which focuses on the alchemists and how they help people (which later changes to saving the world), which is a nice change from what you see in many western adventure games.

Its history in the sciences, I meant.