General Rules (Please read this first!)

[奈落天魔]

The off-topicness we experience here isn't especially harmful a lot of the time, ne?

True, especially considering the nature of ARM. Off-topic has become something that is bound to happen in most threads. It's not like you can post one of those "please stay on topic" pics and watch as everyone suddenly goes on topic. It just doesn't work like that anymore.

[wizzardx]

There have been a few forum structure changes lately. "Members and Community", and "Roleplays" specifically. Could someone perhaps update section 3, "Explanations of each forum"?

[Vermilion Sky]

Done and done.

[Utsuho Lazy]

I've been noticing that the signature rules tend to be broken quite easily. Some signatures contain pictures so tall they almost fill my entire browser height, and some are as big in size as 2MB, which takes forever to load. I don't like disabling signatures either.

Wonders if there's a solution to this...?

[wizzardx]

Depends if you mean a technical solution, or an 'obey the rules' solution.

If it's a problem, probably the simplest way is to remind people about the rule.

Technical solution, would be for Deci to re-enble that logic, which checks images that you link to, when you make new posts (although that sucks for general use, due to waiting for the server to download & scan the linked-to images). Perhaps there is a way to only enable that option for only when people set signatures.

[edit]
And, checking a PHPBB3 ACP, there is indeed such an option, although it only affects image dimensions, not the file size. Although the one is generally tied to the other, except for things like animated gifs. Maybe there is a mod that also lets you check image size, if that becomes a problem.

@Twilight Sky: A bit late, but thanks for updating the rules before ^^.

[Vermilion Sky]

(although that sucks for general use, due to waiting for the server to download & scan the linked-to images). .

Yes, lets not have to go through that again ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;. *remembers posts taking 30 minutes to load because the server would check *any* post with images...

I have noticed it, for quite a while. You(the mods) can tell them their sig is too big and it will have to be shortened, or some things removed. And of course if they don't, then it will be removed.

[Deciare]

I've seen some sites bound the signature to a <div> element with a maximum width and height of 500x500 pixels or so, so even if a user puts more in their signature, the excess won't be visible. That doesn't help with bandwidth, but it does remind people that they've gone over the recommended limit and should think about trimming it down.

Doing so would involve editing each theme's template, and a quick glance shows that it may be easier to do with prosilver-based themes (default, sacred2dark) than subSilver2-based themes (avalon, twilightBB, Rebandon). I've been thinking about doing that for a long time, but I keep slacking. I guess I'll try to do it sooner rather than later.

I kind of don't want people to feel bad about the signatures they might have been using for months to suddenly get cut short, though...

Does anyone have suggestions for what would be a reasonable size limit? Since 600x250 was the recommended limit for each image, and signatures may consist of multiple images, as well as text, we should allow at least more than that.

Edit: I have chosen an arbitrary, initial limit of 600x400. Anyone who would prefer for a different size, please let me know. Those with access to the server may find these values in content.css (search for ".signature") for prosilver-based themes or stylesheet.css (also search for ".signature") for subSilver2-based themes. It can also be edited in the Style->Themes section of the ACP. As noted earlier, values will have to be changed separately for each theme.

[wizzardx]

Quoteshun in my sig now looks like he's swimming
(at least on my browser)

[Utsuho Lazy]

Does anyone have suggestions for what would be a reasonable size limit? Since 600x250 was the recommended limit for each image, and signatures may consist of multiple images, as well as text, we should allow at least more than that.

This is unfortunately quite complex to me. Some signatures can be as tall as 1000px, but if they only contain texts, they probably won't cause annoyance unlike a pic (or multiple pics) with the same height. On the other hand the problem would be GIF images, they can be extremely large (up to MBs) in size and still little in dimensions...

Also, is it just me or align tags no longer work in sig now?

EDIT: Ah, no, looks like the signature block is forced to be left-aligned, and my sig is exactly 600px width so I have the feeling center align no longer works...

All in all, while this is a good solution, I find it kinda... forceful. Then again I don't know what to do anymore...

[Sphilia]

Also, is it just me or align tags no longer work in sig now?

No. I'm seeing it too. That's why, because of confused, I make a topic in Observatory.

Well...If Admins decide so..I think I will go with it as long they tell me the max size of Sig...

[Utsuho Lazy]

Well...If Admins decide so..I think I will go with it as long they tell me the max size of Sig...

Currently, including both images and texts, the max size is 600x400 pixels.

[Vermilion Sky]

In other words, your current sig, Alicia is perfectly fine.

That doesn't help with bandwidth

Correction, that doesn't help their bandwidth. Signatures not hosted by the server do not count towards the sites bandwidth.

[wizzardx]

Correction, that doesn't help their bandwidth. Signatures not hosted by the server do not count towards the sites bandwidth.

Server bandwidth isn't an issue, thankfully ^^.

I think Deci means, people putting large images in their own sigs, can still impact the bandwidth of other members, even if only part of the image is actually displayed now, thanks to her CSS wizardry.

[Deciare]

This is unfortunately quite complex to me. Some signatures can be as tall as 1000px, but if they only contain texts, they probably won't cause annoyance unlike a pic (or multiple pics) with the same height. On the other hand the problem would be GIF images, they can be extremely large (up to MBs) in size and still little in dimensions...

Loading time isn't the only side-effect a signature-size rule is intended to offset, though. It's also about how much extra scrolling you need to do to get to the next post, or in a page full of short posts but long signatures, finding the posts.

Given that setting an image size limit will result in significant slowdowns to updating signatures, making and editing posts; and that it doesn't make sense to say things like "you may only have 5 images in your signature" or "you may only have 255 characters in your signature", I thought allowing everyone to do whatever they wish with the space they have wouldn't stand in the way of their creativity as much.

Also, is it just me or align tags no longer work in sig now?

EDIT: Ah, no, looks like the signature block is forced to be left-aligned, and my sig is exactly 600px width so I have the feeling center align no longer works...

I could look into centre-aligning the signature block itself, so left- or right-aligned elements would be to the left of the centre, to the right of the centre, and so forth?

All in all, while this is a good solution, I find it kinda... forceful. Then again I don't know what to do anymore...

Sorry. I tried to think of a way that would bound people's creativity as little as possible, but I'm sure there are better ways to do it. I'm open to suggestions for how else it could be done, as ever.

[wizzardx]

Given that setting an image size limit will result in significant slowdowns to updating signatures, making and editing posts

I may be mistaken, but I think there are separate image dimension-restriction settings for sigs in phpbb3 ACPs, as opposed to regular posts. So theoretically, if you set that option, there may only be a slowdown for setting sigs, but not for regular image posting. Assuming you want to set that kind of option in the first place. And also of course it would only affect people setting new sigs, rather than existing sigs.

I could look into centre-aligning the signature block itself, so left- or right-aligned elements would be to the left of the centre, to the right of the centre, and so forth?

Is your signature <div> (I think), for the size limitation, interfering with alignments of elements within it in some way? (maybe, overriding the alignments via CSS or something like that >_>).

Sorry. I tried to think of a way that would bound people's creativity as little as possible, but I'm sure there are better ways to do it. I'm open to suggestions for how else it could be done, as ever.

Well, the only non-forceful way, I think, would be to ask people nicely. Any kind of technical limitation (that wasn't there before), is going to raise an eyebrow or two ^^. Although personally I think what you did this time is a good compromise.

[Deciare]

I may be mistaken, but I think there are separate image dimension-restriction settings for sigs in phpbb3 ACPs, as opposed to regular posts. So theoretically, if you set that option, there may only be a slowdown for setting sigs, but not for regular image posting. Assuming you want to set that kind of option in the first place. And also of course it would only affect people setting new sigs, rather than existing sigs.

That's true, but I remember hearing some people complaining about it taking too long to update their signatures, too.

Is your signature <div> (I think), for the size limitation, interfering with alignments of elements within it in some way? (maybe, overriding the alignments via CSS or something like that >_>).

That's very likely. Since the width of the <div> element that contains all elements in the signature is itself bound to 600 pixels, any element of the signature that is aligned would be centred within those 600 pixels, moved to the furthest right of those 600 pixels, and so forth. Centre-aligning the whole <div> block containing the signature will be something of a hack, but I'll see what I can do.

Well, the only non-forceful way, I think, would be to ask people nicely. Any kind of technical limitation (that wasn't there before), is going to raise an eyebrow or two ^^. Although personally I think what you did this time is a good compromise.

Yes... Technical limitations definitely seem colder and more immovable than self-imposed limitations. I'm afraid that asking nicely may be taken as receiving threats from the staff in PM, though. I really want to avoid being that scary.

[Ayulsa]

Asking people nicely is one thing, but it's also a forum rule that signatures can't be that big. This is only bounding people to a rule that was already in place, and would cause people to get their sigs removed anyway if they didn't listen, or else the forum to be overrun by huge images. Plus, it's very time-consuming for the admins to PM people about each and every sig that breaks the rules.

I concede the left-align part, though. But really, it's kind of like... if your sigs are getting cut off, it's because they're outside the limit, although I also agree that that limit is open to negotiation (if anyone wants to negotiate it, which I'm not sure they have so far).

Really, this is an incredibly free policy compared to limiting the number of images or characters in your sig.

(Edit: I've realised I don't actually know that 600x400 was an existing rule, so... I take that back. Still, I think a signature rule has been needing to be set for a long time, and I am fine with that one personally.)

[Deciare]

I have applied a fix to prosilver and sacred2dark (those were easiest; I'll work on the rest later) that centres the signature block within the post rather than squishing everything over to the left side. Does that look better? (Be sure to refresh the page in case old CSS was cached.) Does it look broken on a browser I didn't test with?

Edit: Actually, seeing signatures biased to the left side doesn't look that bad with subSilver2-derived themes (with avatars on the left). Maybe we should leave those as they are, and apply the signature block centring only to prosilver and sacred2dark?

[wizzardx]

And randomly, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that the text in my sig was already centered earlier, before your latest update .Since that was something i specifically fixed, when making my sig a bit shorter a few hours ago.

Hmm.. I think it's probably because my text wasn't particularly wide, so it didn't get squashed within those 600 pixel to begin with ^^.

About the best/least cold way to get people to have a shorter sig. Maybe make an official announcement/request over in Observatory, to remind people about the rule, and also to mention the limit you've added, and that people who still have a long sig later, may be requested (nicely) over PM to shorten their sigs, to be considerate to other users. Although the last part might not be needed, with the 600x400 div hack thing.

Although I guess this current topic already has a fair amount of visibility.

Anyway, thanks for haxing to help with the sig problem

[奈落天魔]

*Is using Sacred2dark*

I don't like how the signatures are auto-centered. Mine looks awkward being moved towards the center the way it is for example. I think that every theme should treat sigs the same and keep them the way that they were.